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View Full Version : Has anyone resurfaced the inside of the Treadle-Vac?



Barry Wolk
05-23-2022, 09:34 PM
Both of the T-V housings I have are badly pitted. One of them came to me on Al's '57 and it's pretty messed up. The stock stainless steel ram had been replaced with a chrome-plated steel rod that had pits in the chrome that tore up the seal and let moisture-laden brake fluid into the vacuum chamber. It badly pitted the surface at the very bottom. The casing is made of a steel that rusts instantly when it comes in contact with water.

The other one I have came from Mad Scientist's rolling Mark II laboratory. Mad claimed that his parent's car was an Introductory Unit. As such, it was an early car. The photographic evidence shows that many cars were fitted with Zinc-coated housings. I believe they were zinc-coated as the inside of the TV needed the rust protection. Mad sad that this unit was unused, but it has all the tell-tale signs of use. I think it was the original T-V from his folks's car and the replacement is what was on the car when he altered it.

This is the condition it was in when I opened it 20 years ago.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/283495557_281892697411492_7697235477131372597_n.jp g

I media blasted the interior to remove the rust, but it also removed the original zinc plating.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/280438005_724349405428888_3324163217995360211_n.jp g

I found little pitting in the actual part of the cylinder the vacuum shuttle moves within, but there was bad corrosion at both ends that caused endless vacuum leaks.

I started off sanding the interior but found that honing stones from my knife sharpener worked well, and quickly revealed the corrosion ring. I started with 320 grit and worked up to 1000.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/281824787_734609667566702_6057644669618596091_n.jp g

Now that I have the rust remove I am going to attempt to replate and use zinc as a filler for the pits. Plate, sand it all off but what's in the pits, rinse and repeat until pits are filled and the triple-plate the inner surface for a final polishing. I'm finding this is a common repair for pot-metal parts. This should protect the interior and give it back a smooth surface. I was looking for an appropriate-size bucket to plate it in. My assistant came up with the brilliant idea of using the booster itself for plating the inside. Plugging the holes in the end the canister can be filled up with the plating issuer and hooked up to the negative of the power supply and the anode of solid zinc would be suspended in the middle of the pot. The zinc should transfer from the anode to the canister and leave a zinc deposition on the inside.

With a pit-free lining and a new leather seal soaked in Neets Foot oil the power brakes should work well.

The grinding did remove most of the pitting. We'll see how may coat of zinc it will take.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3572.JPG

One on the biggest problem I've found with the TV is its inability to dock the ram, setting the tip switch that allows the chamber to fill from the reserve. That is surely the job of the large coils spring that returns your pedal to position. I've found a difference in the heights of these springs been relative to their strength. I plan on solving this malady by installing a spring spacer that's 1/4 of an inch thick effectively lengthening the compressed spring, giving it more strength. I have found that stretching the spring only works for a short period. That should be a permanent fix.

Barry Wolk
05-26-2022, 06:09 PM
Well, it worked.

I sealed up the holes I the base with silicone, leaving the cylinder attached to the platter.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3577.JPG

I taped up the holes in the side, near the top, with Gorilla tape so I could fill the cylinder with etching solution to remove any trace of rust before I plated.

I didn't have enough, so I bobbed a water jug in the prep solution and added water to the bobber until the acid level rose to the top.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3587.JPG

It took a lot longer than I thought. I waited until the foam covered the surface.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3592.JPG

Absolute success. You can see where the steel base is and where the plating starts.

This is just the first dip. I used a scuff pad to take off the top few molecules. The pits from the rust will fill up with each successive layer. I'm thinking 3, but we'll see.

Does anyone do this commercially? This is a bit of work for a hobbyist. Is there another way?

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3595.JPG

Mark Norris
05-27-2022, 02:59 AM
Love the photo of the plastic bottle to raise the fluid level ... reminds me of the crow in Aesops Fables. This one must have read it too;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaUM_OngaY

The bowl looks too thin to fit a liner but maybe there is potential to weld and machine back (risk of distortion) or cold fill with resin metal (gasps of horror I know) and machine back (many a ship is running around with repairs like that but obviously this is a safety critical item).

Barry Wolk
05-28-2022, 04:30 PM
I did plating sequence 3 and 4 today, with no burnishing in-between. I'm learning that each coat needs to be brightened with a Scotch pad between platings or the surface can get coarse.

This is what I started with. I used the better one on the right. Most of the zinc plating was intact, but the light rust had already done some damage.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3542.JPG

After blasting the rust was gone, as was the plating. The rust left some serious pits. I used 320-800 grit sharpening stones to hone the cylinder. That helped, but I needed to restore the interior finish.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3572_2.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds

Lots of labor, but there's no need for degreasing or prepping the surface between plating sequences, except giving it a slight shine.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3599.JPG

One more coat and the pits will likely fill, but I think I've succeeded in rustproofing and providing a smooth surface for the 3/8" tall leather seal. The size makes the seal pretty forgiving, plus the pits will simply fill with the Neatsfoot Oil, providing plenty of vacuum power.

The ring of pits at the top are where the piston parks. When you apply foot pressure the seal hits a nice new surface.

It seems, in he dozen or so, T-Vs I've taken apart they all have had dry cylinders, like they were never fully lubricated, nor was the packing rope behind the seal ever been soaked as a re-supply for the leather seal. I'm thinking that if you took yours apart you might find the same conditions exist. I'm guessing the service interval is less than 50 years.

I'm also thinking that any lubricant would have evaporated decades ago as any outgassing of the oil would simply have been sucked into the engine in the vacuum stream. Typically, the ring of residue in the cylinder is the clay or mineral base left after the petroleum lubricant evaporates. I test fit the new seal and it moves smoothly.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3604.JPG

Barry Wolk
06-02-2022, 07:28 AM
The TV in this car would not trip the tip-switch that allows the lower chamber of the master cylinder to be replenished. The switch wouldn't tip for 2 reasons. 1, because of the large internal spring didn't have enough power to overcome the ring of corrosion left where then travel of the vacuum shuttle stopped. 2, moisture was absorbed when the original charge of neatsfoot oil evaporated, causing the leather seal to rub off the plated finish on the inside, causing the cylinder wall to rust, tearing up the seal.

The lack of lubrication caused the leather to shrink, causing a vacuum leak and ineffective power brakes. I've also determined that the fluid in the booster came from the corrosion on the chrome plated piston tearing up the seals. Each time you hit the brakes you subjected the seals to vacuum and the moisture-laden old fluid was literally sucked through the seals and deposited in the vacuum chamber.

Even if your brakes are working OK, it might be time to stop ignoring what's going on inside the most important system on your car. The TV is simple to remove. One shoulder bolt on the brake pedal, remove the brake hose and vacuum lines and remove the 4 fine thread bolts attaching the TV to the firewall and it's out. Remove the back cover, remove the air vent at the top and the check valve on the side and the whole vacuum shuttle pulls straight out for inspection. Remove the ring of corrosion, soak the seal and oil reserve behind it in neatsfoot oil and apply a liberal layer of oil on the cylinder wall and proper operation will be restored.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3487_2.JPG

Mike Teske
06-05-2022, 09:01 AM
Thanks for sharing your experiences Barry

Barry Wolk
06-05-2022, 05:33 PM
You're welcome, Mike.

If I had it to do over I would have plated the whole shell. Larger vessel, more solution, larger power supply.