Ford 460 CID "timing set change out"

[Shelly Harris]

Barry is currently working on his 460 from his '68 LC Limo and there's another thread on that.

I'm tinkering with the 460 in my '74 Mark IV. The engine is performing very well. It looks a mess and need detailing. But it runs real sweet except for the automatic choke. Yesterday I flushed the radiator and changed out the plugs. About half looked good (tan) and half looked black, a bit oiley and future candidates for fowling out. But it runs sweet when warmed up. I might have fixed the auto choke this afternoon as I was able to free up the choke plate to close down. I cleaned up the Motorcraft carb and fiddled around with the hybrid auto choke that is part electric heating up a bimetal coil, part vacumn and what ever the hell else Ford could throw in. I'm not too keen on that carb, but once it's warmed up it does the job. I wish it was performing as nice as my rebuildt Carter in the Mark II.

So why am I starting the thread. I'm considering tackling the job of changing out the "timing set" on my own.... and I want Barry or anyone else to chime in. I have the complete set of Ford manuals and it doesn't sound too hard. Other than a gear puller I have the tools... I'm wondering if I have the skill? What are the pit falls ahead of me?

[Barry Wolk]

None, do it. It's a messy job so I'd power wash the engine first.

You just need a puller to get the harmonic balancer off. The gear on the crank just slides off.

I don't know if your 460 is the same but the oil pan gasket also is the gasket for the bottom of the front cover. You may have to buy a set of oil pan gaskets and chop the ends off.

If you're after the nylon covered timing gear, it's worth your time. If it's already been changed then it's an opportunity to change the front seal, probably the source of all the oil on the engine.

[Don Henschel]

This pretty well sums it up.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5553844_replace-timing-chain-cover-ford.html
Alot of timing cover gaskets come with these chopped of peices already so you dont have to use a full pan gasket. Ask for a timing cover gasket set. It should come with the water pump gaskets, fuel pump gasket, cover and front pan gaskets and ask if it comes with the crank seal. Don't forget about that small hose between the water pump and the intake. This would be a good time to replace the hose and clamps if needed. When you pull the cover into place with the bolts, alternate the tightening of the bolts on the pan and cover so the cover can slide in and down before your final torque so there are no gaps to leak. Use some brakeclean to degease these critical areas before you apply a bit of sealant (at the point where the front cover meets the block and the oil pan). If your pan gasket looks poor and is leaking (and of course if there is room to actually pull the pan with the engine still in the car) it might be a good time to replace it. BTW if your engine damper pully has a groove worn in it from the oil seal you can repair it with a speedi-sleeve. Make sure the crank and the pulley are clean so the pulley will slide on smoothly (don't forget to line up your pully keyway before you push on the pulley!)Good luck Shelly
PS dont use a typical gear puller (the one with jaws or hooks) on your damper as you can ruin the rubber damper. Get an actual damper puller that bolts on to the "puller" bolt holes on the damper or engine pully. They don't cost much and have a low profile to get into this tight area.
http://www.jtrenginetool.com/shop/category/categoryID/465/harmonic-damper-pullers/

[Barry Wolk]

Good advice, Don.

[Don Henschel]

Like Barry said do yourself a big favour and power wash the engine. Turn the engine to top dead center before you pull the chain to make installation a bit easier and mark your distributor and rotor position as well. It's been awhile since I rebuilt a 429 (same engine as a 460) for a friend of mine. Barry is the water pump mounted to the timing cover? or is it separate? IE: water passages through the cover?

[Barry Wolk]

Water passages through the cover.

The kit I bought didn't have the proper seal between the power steering pump and the housing as that set-up was only used in '68 and '69.

Also, I don't believe the kit comes with the water pump gasket, the one that goes between the sheet metal backer and the pump housing. You'll have to order separately, and you'll kick yourself if you wanted to get the job done in a weekend.

It's a lot easier to do this work without the grille and radiator in the way, but that makes for a bigger mess. I'm not as agile as I used to be. I'll take all the workroom that I can get.

[Don Henschel]

It should come with all the gaskets. The reason I asked about the pump mounting to the cover is it rings a bell about the longer bolts required to hold this together with possible rust damage to the bolts and possible corrosion damage to the cover as well. Careful cleanup and inspection of the aluminum parts and maybe new bolts might be required. Other than that pull the radiator of course. The grill....well that might be a bit of a nightmare. I will see if I can find one of these kicking around the hood. There should still be a few 460s roaming around here.

[Barry Wolk]

Mine had some corrosion behind the water pump backer plate and one of my bots was corroded, but cleaned up OK.

I used an RTV I think is called superblack, or something like that.

[benzladen]

Hi Shelly,Having some fun with the new toy I see.I believe the 74 engine was a smogger with the timing retarded a bit.The fix on that was using an early crank gear to get some more power and a bit better mileage out of the 460.If you're in there anyway?It's not too bad a job with the rad out and you shouldn't have to touch the a/c condenser.Like Barry said go for the nylon gear as it's much quieter.Power wash recomendation sounds good too. Cheers!,Kelly

[Barry Wolk]

Hi Kelly, I think you misunderstood. The nylon gear should be avoided. The difference is minimal from what many club members have posted.

The nylon deteriorates and pieces crack off and clog or stop the oil pump.

Shelly, you might want to search the Lincoln Forum for the cam gear you want, if you want a bit more hp without changing the cam. I'm sure I've seen it discussed.

[Don Henschel]

Hi Shelly,Having some fun with the new toy I see.I believe the 74 engine was a smogger with the timing retarded a bit.The fix on that was using an early crank gear to get some more power and a bit better mileage out of the 460.If you're in there anyway?It's not too bad a job with the rad out and you shouldn't have to touch the a/c condenser.Like Barry said go for the nylon gear as it's much quieter.Power wash recomendation sounds good too. Cheers!,Kelly

Actually I have read up to 8 degrees! Correct me if i'm wrong but if my memory serves me correct a timing chain set from a 68-71 known as a Ford BB 429-460 TDC timing chain set (Cloyes part # C-3079X) The other one listed is a Ford BB 8 degree retarded set. This one should work and will smarten up the bottom end torque and bump up the gas mileage! Like Barry said avoid that nylon gear set! Besides that the steel gear set (silent chain style) is very easy to find for this reason. Yes they are slightly louder than the nylon but quieter than the double roller chain set.

[Shelly Harris]

Yes, I'm very much aware of the timing set issues. If I get the courage up to do the job I'll certainly get it set up to pre-1972 settings. I've also learned that a re-curved distributor is a good mod as then the timing works together and it's a readily available item. The mainfold, camshaft and carb will remain stock. Probably will change out the water pump since I'm in there.

[Barry Wolk]

If your pump isn't leaking I wouldn't bother. It's so simple to change down the road if you need too. That's one of those things that you don't fix unless it's broken. However, I would replace hoses and belts while you're in there.

[lincoln mark]

Shelly, Try "Summit Racing" , for your timing gear set. They carry alot of big block Ford racing parts. You should be able to get a heavy duty nylon gear set there. That way you have the best of both worlds, less noise from the nylon, and strenth of the steel. If its made for racing, you will not wear it out. Mark A Maromonte.

[Shelly Harris]

Shelly, Try "Summit Racing" , for your timing gear set. They carry alot of big block Ford racing parts. You should be able to get a heavy duty nylon gear set there. That way you have the best of both worlds, less noise from the nylon, and strenth of the steel. If its made for racing, you will not wear it out. Mark A Maromonte.


Sounds like a good tip... I'll check that out

[Barry Wolk]

I suppose that would work, but definitely stay away from the nylon-coated steel gear.

Frankly, I don't see the need for a nylon gear as you can barely hear my 460 at idle with the hood open. The exhaust leaks make more noise.