Mark IV - My new old car.

[Shelly Harris]

My son Dave (Carman) drove me out to LaPorte, IN last Friday and we picked up the '74 Mark IV which I took a $6,200 crap shoot on via eBay in January. The day before I called the seller and asked him to take the car to quick lube and dump the oil, filter, lube etc. which he did.

Here's the good.

The body/paint is excellent. All the trim, bright stuff, glass, mirrors are excellent. 78K miles. It has been garaged since 1992 and in the last 18 years only 2000 miles. Everything ---windows, radio, antenna, seats, etc. (except the clock) works fine. The interior is original, clean and in excellent condition. I drove it back to Chicago (100 miles) and the motor sounded great, transmission worked fine, steering tight, good accelleration, power, etc. Handled and rode like the land yacht it is.

Here's the bad.

The vinyl top is shot. I knew this before the sale. Probable replacement cost $500.

Brakes had a rubbing sound on the pedal linkage. Turned out the Master Cylinder was leaking so CarX replaced the Master, adjusted all the brake stuff and bled the system. Front discs and rear shoes and drums are ok with plenty of miles left on them. Brakes are now perfect ($250).

The left rear spring is broken. Today, I'm going to get both rear springs replaced along with new rear shocks because the old ones are frozen on and have to be torched off. ($300)

The car has a shake which might be the spring, but I'm fairly certain its the tires. The steering linkage, control arms, wheel bearings all check out ok. The front tires are 18 years old and the rears are coded 1981. All have great thread, don't appear rotted but they've been sitting since 1992 and the tire people tell me buy new and the shake will go away. I tried balancing them but it didn't change a thing. Tires will be $400

Under the hood the engine etc. could really use detailing. The automatic choke's not working, otherwise the engine purrs nice when warmed up. I changed out the air filter and gas filter on the carb. The quick lube missed a couple of grease fittings and I took care of that.

All in all, I think I made out ok. With some effort, that I'm not going to do, this car is a great candidate for complete off frame clean up and restoration. I'm very happy to do the few things necessary to make it into a reliable driver because cosmetically it looks terrific. Other than getting the choke repaired, replacing the vinyl top and possibly changing out the timing set, there isn't anything further I intend to do, other than the usual routine maintenace.

[Barry Wolk]

Mazel Tov!

[Mad Scientist]

A 100 miles on 18 year old tires:eek: that would have been a total white knuckle ride for me.:)

On the things to do list I think I would add change the trans and differential fluids.

[Shelly Harris]

Yes, I had the trans fluid changed out today along with the springs and rear shocks. Unfortunately I under valued the cost of a new vinyl top... just got an estimate for $1,500.

[Mad Scientist]

That got to make it ride a lot nicer.

As for the top you might try doing something custom maybe a little different.
Paint the top with glue and then sprinkle the feathers from an old pillow on it. That should cover up any imperfection in the vinyl plus giving a total unique style.
People have been known to put feathers in their hats, this would be just an extension of that. :eek::):):)

[Barry Wolk]

A 100 miles on 18 year old tires:eek: that would have been a total white knuckle ride for me.:)

More industry hype to get you to buy new tires. I have the original Michelin X tires on my '77 TC and have driven across Michigan twice, put 7,000 miles on them in 7 years and the only problem I've had is that they squeal as they go around corners.

My tire guy, whom I've been going to for 40 years, that would always love to sell me new tires, inspected mine and said there's no need to replace them if they're not dry-rotted.

Cars have been around for about 100 years. Funny how none of the anecdotal or statistical evidence points to tires self-destructing after 6 years.:rolleyes: Not meaning to be to be political, but that's just one more step towards a nanny-state.

Just curious. How many of YOU have had failure of a tire SPECIFICALLY due to age?

And seriously, how many of you have had catastrophic accidents due to tire failure? I've had plenty of flats on new tires, but never hit anything because of it. I'll take my chances.

I can't see feeding the land fill over so much BS.

[Shelly Harris]

They are just jealous of your new adventure. Enjoy the journey.
NO, there's no jealousy here.... everyone enjoys hearing about each other's adventures in getting these cars rolling again.

Believe it or not, after driving the car for the last five days the clock decided to start working again.

Also the shakes went away with a new set of tires. (Unfortunatly Tirerack.com sent me a tire with a blemed white wall and the installer put it on and didn't say a word about it. I didn't see it till I got home with the car. Sent them a picture and now waiting to see what Tirerack is going to do about it)

This weekend I'm changing out the plugs and spark wires, putting a pre filter in the fuel line also going to flush out the radiator on this car and the Mark II.

[Barry Wolk]

I've gotten a lot of old metal clock mechanisms working again by baking them at 350° for about 15 minutes. Most clocks stop working because their lubricants evaporate, leaving a sticky gunk behind. Baking them and then lubricating them gives many more years of life.

You can also easily convert the movement to battery powered quartz.

[Shelly Harris]

Here's two pictures of the blemished white wall. I tried to get it off with Wesly's Bleech White. Looks like black rubber stain ????

[CarMan]

Try Armour All Tire Foam. Then wipe it with a damp sponge. Can buy it anywhere. I had a blemish in a raised white letter T/A Radial tire. Did that and it went away.

http://www.armorall.com/products/view_product.php?product_id=26

I have some at my house if you want to borrow it.

Dave

[Shelly Harris]

More industry hype to get you to buy new tires. .

Barry you have so much good information about our cars, but on this tire issue you're info is bad.

Ancient tires such as the ones on my car that sat for 18+ years demanded changing. They looked ok, no rot, but trashing them cured all the shaking. I do agree that the industry guideline to change tires after 5 or 6 years is a bit conservative, but why take such a risk with your life?
The cases of catastrophic tire blowouts are real and many. You need only google "products liability tires" to see the legion of cases and the legal cottage industry that has grown over tire incidents. Asking how many of you had it happen is no proof. Just like it would be wrong to claim that Haitti did not have an earthquake because you can't name a Haittian who experienced it. Trash those '77 Michelins time bombs.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Just curious. How many of YOU have had failure of a tire SPECIFICALLY due to age?


When I was appointed DSM at GM in 1989, I stored my Olds Cutlass I bought new, as I had no idea how long I would have a company car. That Olds was put on the road again in 2002 when GM put me in early retirement. As I replaced the tires once before 1989, I assume the tires were about 15 years old when I drove again the car. The tires were hard and the dealer told me that he would not thrust them.
One day, while coming back from our house in France, a severe vibration began. I was real hard to drive above 50 mph; the whole car was shaking. As we still had 180 miles to drive, we were shaked!
Looking at the tires revealed nothing. However, when we finally got home, I decided to install my winter wheels.
3 tires were still OK, the RH front was like an egg. Suddenly, I new why: during storage, this tire lost air and I noticed it too late. Some damages were done and, after a couple of thausand miles, the carcass said "Good bye"!

My Brougham has the same brand of tires than my Olds had (not the same dimension); they are about 20 years old, still soft and I have not the intention to replace them for the moment.

[Barry Wolk]

So, I just want to clarify. Your tire overheated due to low tire pressure, a common problem with new and old tires, no?

Nothing to do with age, correct?

[Barry Wolk]

Here's two pictures of the blemished white wall. I tried to get it off with Wesly's Bleech White. Looks like black rubber stain ????

Mineral spirits will take that off. The spirits will remove the top layer of white rubber. Don't use paint thinner as that is only half-strength mineral spirits.

It's the best whitewall restorer. I recommend it to everyone.

[Roger Zimmermann]

So, I just want to clarify. Your tire overheated due to low tire pressure, a common problem with new and old tires, no?

Nothing to do with age, correct?
At the moment of the incident, the tire had a normal air pressure. The problem was that it was unflated during storage for a too long period, damaging permanently the carcass. You are right, it has nothing to do with age, but with bad storage. The reference with the Brougham was to demonstrate that I have nothing against old tires if they are correctly stored and inflated.

[Shelly Harris]

Mineral spirits will take that off. The spirits will remove the top layer of white rubber. Don't use paint thinner as that is only half-strength mineral spirits.

It's the best whitewall restorer. I recommend it to everyone.


If it wasn't a brand new tire I'd try that. But I just got off the phone with Tirerack.com and a new tire is on its way. Unfortunately I have to pay and go through the bother of remounting. My wife is often to quote "shopping breeds shopping" .

[Barry Wolk]

What do you have to lose? You'll not have to pay for remounting and balancing if it works. How would they be able to tell that you tried?

[Don Henschel]

At the moment of the incident, the tire had a normal air pressure. The problem was that it was unflated during storage for a too long period, damaging permanently the carcass. You are right, it has nothing to do with age, but with bad storage. The reference with the Brougham was to demonstrate that I have nothing against old tires if they are correctly stored and inflated.

Well said!!!!!!
Storage and maintenance is the number one issue with tires. The tires on my Mark are from 1995 with 100 miles on them. They are always indoors, never in the sun, and properly inflated. They look and drive like brand new. Run a radial underinflated and see what kind of a time bomb you have! I put my Firestone Deluxe champions on my 50Merc in 1987 and because they are getting bald is the reason I will replace them this year. They don't tramp or vibrate and dont have cracking because they don't sit out in the sun. I also give a quick check on my tires before driving. I do a walk around checking for low tires etc. As for major tire failures, the majority of the ones I had were with radials. I have had defective ones with belt separation, belt shifting etc. I had two fly right apart on the highway within a week, both the same brand and installed on the car at the same time. Another matched set I had, the belts shifted (3 out of 4), causing the car to sway back and forth while driving very slow. Age and maintenance was not an issure with these tires. They were just defective.
Shelly, as for the rubber stain, I would try steel wool with a strong cleaner (Spray Nine etc.), . It removes scuff marks and stains on whites. It's always worked good for me on my wide whitewalls I have had on my cars.

[Barry Wolk]

You should never use steel wool on rubber as little pieces of the wool can embed itself in the rubber and rust the first time it gets wet. Then you really have a stain. You're better off using bronze wool, available at furniture refinishers and boat supplies.

Interesting story about that subject. At least, I thought it interesting. We bought an outdoor sculpture from a Chicago artist name Boban. It's a depiction of Icarus rising into the sky on wings of wax, except the whole sculpture was supposed to be made of stainless silverware.

The artist installed the piece on a pedestal I made especially for it. Within a week it was covered in rust. I wasn't very happy. The artist came back from Chicago with a helper and used a die grinder with wire brush attachments to clean the rust off. A week later it was covered in rust again.

He decided to make us a new sculpture out of silverware supplied directly from Onida, his sponsor. He delivered the new piece and took the old one back to Chicago. A week later the new piece was covered in rust.

Then I figured it out. The wire brushes they were using were made of iron. Tiny particles of iron were embedded in the stainless, and that's what rusted. One more trip from Chicago with stainless and brass wheels and the problem went away.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/House/IMG_0560.jpg

[Don Henschel]

Just to clarify SOS pads are what I use not straight steel wool. It has usually worked for me without staining. Our local car wash even had them for sale just for that purpose. To each his own.

[Shelly Harris]

Mineral spirits will take that off. The spirits will remove the top layer of white rubber. Don't use paint thinner as that is only half-strength mineral spirits.

It's the best whitewall restorer. I recommend it to everyone.

Yes, it did the job. Excellent tip Barry.. thank you. Now why didn't the service rep know enough to tell me that. They shipped me a new tire which I'm going to be returning-- all at their expense.

[Shelly Harris]

You can also easily convert the movement to battery powered quartz.


Do you have specific information on that? It starts up occasionally but quickly dies. I think the solenoid coil which kicks off a mechanical winding of a spring is burned (shorted) out. It would be nice to put a quartz one in if the dial, hands and setting control of the original are maintained.

[Barry Wolk]

Any hobby or craft store will have battery powered clock movements. The one on my limo fit completely inside the original housing.

BTW, the clock is the biggest reason for dead batteries on a parked Mark II. I just pull the fuse. That fuse also controls the interior lights.

[Mad Scientist]

Don’t know if your clock is the same as the one on the MKII. But the MKII does not use a solenoid to rewind it. It uses a flea-power motor that is running in a stalled condition. A standard balance wheel and escapement then allows the motor to turn as if it were a spring drive.

The spring on my balance wheel broke and was long ago "professionally" replaced with one that make the clock run twice as fast as it should. No amount of tweaking was able to get it to run in its normal half fast manner.

So I bought $2 closeout quartz clock at Wal Mart tore it completely apart leaving only the motor and the gear train that drove its second hand. Removed the old motor and balance wheel and escapement, they came off easily, and replaced it with the new motor. Made a flexible coupling to go between it and the second hand of the clock by striping some insulation off a piece of wire.

It has been working great and now actually keeps good time.

It was somewhat involved but not all that difficult. You may want to consider it.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/mscientist/MKII%20rebuild/CLK1.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/mscientist/MKII%20rebuild/CLK7.jpg

[Ed Cramer]

My personal experiences support both sides of the "old" tire discussion. When I got my 72MK IV in 86 I left the Michelins alone, as they had good tread. I don't know how old they were but when I went to replace them that style was no longer available. I believe it was the same type as came on the car originally from my research. I drove the car daily and all was fine until one day in 1989 on I17 in Phoenix when a thunk, thunk, thunk noise manifested itself. It was one of the Michelins having major tread separation off the carcass. The tread itself still looked great! The inside of the fender and the fender trim didn't. Those Michelins were the best looking tires I have ever had replaced. At least they had lasted much longer than the Firestone 500 radials on my 65 Lincoln convertible. Those developed the dreaded sidewall bulge after only a short time in service. Us older ones will recall the articles in the late 60's on that problem! Those tires went asap as the bulges appeared! However the raised white Goodyear tires on my T/A still look good and I intend to drive on them when the car is ready to go. They must be at least 17 years old, but look in good shape. However one thing for sure, whether the tire is old or new, I pay a lot of attention to any unusual noise, vibration, or handling oddity immediately. Most tires will give some warning sign before they go. But only you can catch it thru care. I personally believe the tire manufactuers can build very high quality tires, or so-so ones. Time will tell.