A/C Nostrils

[Barry Wolk]

I posed the question of when the "air intakes" were eliminated on the rear quarters of the Mark II.

Here's a link to the discussion on the Lincoln Forum.

http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=29786&p=208553&hilit=intake#p208553

Maybe new people here can add to the discussion.

[Shelly Harris]

This doesn't change anything but FWIW my car has the "air intakes" and it definitely had factory air. Now has brand new compressor and various new a/c components.

[Barry Wolk]

I believe your car was made in January 1956. It may have been one of the last produced with the beautiful intakes.

[Barry Wolk]

Some more information. In rereading the 1956-57 Continental Mark II Master Parts Catalogue, printed in August of 1959, I find that the reference to a last car with intakes is JOB #1239, not Serial #1239.

Now this gets a little tricky. This will confirm Lowell Domholt's engine serial number project. The PRODUCTION ORDER for my car shows it as JOB #137, but its serial number C5681126, would lead you to believe that it is JOB #126, but it's not. The engine number, stamped into the block just behind the distributor, should be 11 numbers higher than your serial number. This accounts for the pre-production cars that started in the 990s, where the production cars started with #1001 or the 12th car built.

This would mean that JOB #1239 would actually be SERIAL #C56B2228, the last Mark II with nostrils. I've checked, it was an air conditioned car. It was also one of the few 2-tone cars, like Nick's. I found the current owner in the Directory. I'm going to call to see if my theory is right. Unfortunately, C56B2229 is not registered with the LCOC to verify that #2228 was the last car. The next number registered is #2237, which is an air conditioned car.

[Barry Wolk]

I just heard back from 2237 and their car has the vents.:confused:

[Mad Scientist]

It is my understanding that these vents were on all air conditioned cars as this is were you got fresh out side air from. Of course you first had to crawl into the back seat to adjust the control knob on the rear deck.:rolleyes:

[Barry Wolk]

No, that's not what I read. The air intakes were the source of air that passed over the a/c coils. They were eliminated to go to a recirculating system that eliminated outside air intake.

[Nick DeSpirito]

Barry,

The air intakes were to take fresh air into the evaporator, but could be closed off with the dial on the leading edge of the package tray. This dial is cable operated and there is an oval flap (I put new ones on my car when I restored it) behind each intake with rubber rivited onto them. When you turn the dial (it has an arrow on it), it closes the flap, thus shutting the intakes and cutting off the fresh air supply and recirculating the air inside the compartment via a grill on that runs along the leading edge of the package tray. There is also a metal filter in the evaporator that needs to be cleaned occasionally.

When you said you were looking for cars with quarter intakes, I thought you were referring to non-airconditioned units. I had heard long ago that a few very early non-airconditioned cars came with scoops, but then were eliminated. When I say early, I mean maybe the first dozen or two units.

The intakes were eliminated for the '57 model year, but it's a little fuzzy on when this took place. The new restoration manual states in June of 1956, however in The book printed back in the late '70's by Buddy Holiday (which I purchased from him back then) states that the elimination of the air intakes took place around March, April, or May of 1956.

The '57's without the intakes do have fresh air intakes. They were just rerouted through the rockers on either side of the car via wired tubes (similar to the one that brings fresh air into the air cleaner only smaller diameter) and tied into the heater blower motor housings in the fenders.

Here's a photo of a '56 showing the hoses coming down from the air intakes to the wheel wells to drain any water that might have entered, and back up to the blower motors on each side of the evaporator case. These are normally hidden by a carpet "donut", but this car is missing them.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3542/3819635213_9440e07315_m.jpg

Here's a side view from another car. Notice the "T" connection mounted to the wheel well. That's where the water drains.

http://c-it.com/chandler/56lincoln/img010.jpg

[Jim Rohn]

My dad designed that system and I know he ALWAYS used fresh air intake whether it was from the scoops or somewhere else

I do not think the lack of outside scoops meant it was ONLY a recirculate system, it was just that the air came from somewhere else. A good example of a recirculate system is the hang on units the early Mustangs and Falcons had.

my father made SURE they used fresh air

now slightly off topic but to make the point:

have you ever seen a car driving around with water/moisture on the inside of the windows? You see them more "back east" where there is rain, snow and humidity. If you have, that person has their heating system set on recirculate.

I know my dad knew this and he fought to make sure there was always a fresh air intake. It wasn't until the 80's that certain cars allowed the HEATING system to operate on recirculated air, a BAD thing for keeping the windows clear of moisture

[Barry Wolk]

Yes, but a good thing for quick warm-up or cool-down of the passenger compartment. Just don't leave it that way.

[j a guttman]

I recall that there were air scoops faired into the top ofthe tail fins. Were they functional? I can't imagine what they were for, but I hope that they had a purpose.

[Nick DeSpirito]

Mr. Guttman,

Yes, they were the fresh air intakes for the air conditioning system.

[Barry Wolk]

And, they looked soooooo good. I wish my car had them. Were they bronze, like the tail pipe insert?

[Nick DeSpirito]

Barry,

I heard they were cast in bronze, but I don't know for sure. Maybe it says something about it in the encyclopedia?

[Barry Wolk]

They were a separate part but I can't find the description in this parts book.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/1%20Mark%20II%20docs/MarkIIexploded.jpg

[Nick DeSpirito]

Here's a photo of a '56 trunk showing the hoses coming down to the wheel wells to drain any water that might have entered through the intakes and they then loop back up the the blower motors on each side of the evaporator case. These hoses are normally hidden by a carpet "donut", but this car is missing them.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3542/3819635213_9440e07315_m.jpg

Here's a side view from another car. Notice the "T" connection mounted to the wheel well. that's where the water drains.

http://c-it.com/chandler/56lincoln/img010.jpg

[Keith W Colonna]

Group,
Was the screen which is visible through the fender nostrils painted body color???or was is chromed, painted silver, black or what??

[Shelly Harris]

Mine's black.

[Nick DeSpirito]

according to the authenticity manual (and my car) the grills inside the air intakes are chrome.

Here's two pictures of mine.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2671/3823223486_87070d4fb4_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3482/3822417521_cb1ca7e121_m.jpg

[Keith W Colonna]

Thanks for the input....My 55 Capri has air scoops (not nostrils though) and the screens are chromed. I am convinced they should be chrome but will paint them in place with silver paint.

[linmk2]

The screens on my 56 are chrome.

[Barry Wolk]

Ahah! Proof that the nostrils are bronze.

http://www.continentalmarkii.com/Restoration/medium_MarkIIstripped9a.jpg

[Chuck Lutz]

FWIW, I'm C2287 - Jan 56 and I'm nostriled. Ouch, that sounds bad. I seem to remember Nicks timing of late spring of 56 when they dropped but I have the same Holiday book.

As discussed here before the switch between the trunk hinges from sissors to torsion spings happened in the second week of Jan 1956.

[Chuck Lutz]

Ahah! Proof that the nostrils are bronze.

http://www.continentalmarkii.com/Restoration/medium_MarkIIstripped9a.jpg

Yes, I believe they show that way in the parts catalog. As bronze castings they were much easier to produce and brazed right into the heavy gauge body panels.

I promise NONE ever rusted out.:D

[SLK]

I have C56G3133 which was made in May, 1956 and my car has nostrils too.

[linmk2]

This is being posted for informational purposes only. I have no idea if the statements are true. Contained in the old LCOC Authenticity Manual Edited by Robert Prins, on page 25 paragraph C the following is written: "Rear quarter panels had air intake scoops on the top of the panels. These A/C intake scoops were on all Mark II's with or without A/C until Jan. 1956 to serial # C56C2238. After C56C2239, cars without A/C had smooth panels although A/C equipped Mark II"s had scoops as late as # 3100. The screens in the scoops were unpainted Stainless Steel. After late 1956 and all 1957, the scoops were eliminated, the tops of the panels being plain and smooth, with or without A/C." I'm not sure if his mention of #3100 is a VIN or order number.

[Barry Wolk]

Well, that's clearly wrong just from the sampling we have here. I don't think there's a single car here without air that has scoops.

Anyone? #126, no scoops, no original air.

[Nick DeSpirito]

Barry,

There were a lot of things wrong in that restoration manual, this being one of them. We have already proved it wrong via your car and other early cars we've seen and know of without air. Anyone presently restoring a Mark II should follow the the new version being offered by LCOC.

[Barry Wolk]

Unfortunately, there are lots of things wrong with LCOC "history". The problem is battling the mentality of "once published, it is truth".:rolleyes:

[Shelly Harris]

I read it somewhere but failed to write it down.... what vin is considered to be the start of 1957s?

[linc64]

I'm almost afraid to quote from previously published material, but in the article that I posted from issue 141 of Continental Comments, serial number 3418 is stated to be the first '57.

[Barry Wolk]

I think it should all be posted so that it can be sorted out. We have such a huge advantage over previous historians because of the speed of communications and the database of the internet. People like Chuck that are willing to do the work of sorting things out, should be commended as should anyone that digs up new material to discuss.

One should not hesitate to discuss anything Mark II related here.

[Chuck Lutz]

I'm almost afraid to quote from previously published material, but in the article that I posted from issue 141 of Continental Comments, serial number 3418 is stated to be the first '57.

That's also the Vin quoted by Buddy Holiday in his book with a notation as it being so recognized by the LCOC.

[linmk2]

As I stated in my original post on the subject, the information was from an old LCOC Authenticity Manual. There is no publishing date on the material. We now know that the information contained in this document is wrong. It is interesting that so many so called "experts" allowed this document to pass and I'm assuming, was used during LCOC judging. Some of the names contained in the manual are familiar to me, others are not. These are the people who contributed to the old Authenticity Manual, they are as follows: Alan Berg, Robert Davis, Riley Drawdy, Buddy Holiday, Jerry and Sammy Sue Kutger, Bradley Luse, Ronald Reeves, Walter Rhea, Elmer Rohn, Michael Schultz, and Edward Spagnolo. Robert Prines (who is he anyway?) gives special mention to many of these people. It appears that Buddy Holiday and Elmer Rohn contributed most of the information. I've owned my Mark for almost 3 decades, and one thing I've learned is that nothing with these cars appear to be written in stone and the information is ever changing.

[SLK]

I believe that Elmer Rohn, is Jim Rohn's father. If I'm correct, he was the engineer behind the A/C system in the car. Jim is on here and can fill in more.

[lincoln mark]

O. K. I do not know if this will help or confuse even more. I have 3 sets of nostrils I have cut off of parts cars that I have had over the years. I can only find the paper work on 2 of the cars. Tha V.I.N,s are, C5613270 and C56H3230, both a/c cars. Yes, they are brass and appear to be leaded in. Now for when they stopped using them. I will need a little help on this from anyone who has a good collection of parts books. I want to go at this with part numbers and not V.I.N. numbers as a way of trying to narrow it down a little. I have 4 Marks, V.I.N C56B2232, air with nostrils, restored. V.I.N. C56A1693, no air, no nostrils, restored. V.I.N. C56B1969, no air, no nostrils, in storage awaiting restoration. AND the one that might help sorting out the part numbers, V.I.N. C56F3019. Here is a little history on this car asI know it. This car is half way done. I bought this car from John McClure, from the Lincoln Farm in 2006. This car was hit hard in the rear. Both Quarters, trunk floor, trunk lid, gas tank and rear frame were crushed. John McClure got it from a body shop out east. The owner had it at the body shop to do the restoration on it. The body shop burnt down and thank God the car was pushed outside in time. The only fire damage was the taillights melted. That is when the owner gave up and sold the car to John McClure. I beleive this car was hit sometime in the late 50,s as everything is rust free, just like it came off of the assembly line and a solid 40,000 mile car . NOW, for the part numbers. On the inside of the quarter panels are part number stickers. Right side 4046086, Left side 4046087, and these have the nostrile holes already stamped out to replace with the new nostrils. My parts book printed in 1959 shows what was stated before, 4046624 and 4046625 to also be used with the A/C cars. Which seems to me those part number quarters do not have the holes already stamped in them, and it is up to the shop to cut the holes. The question is does anyone have a parts book showing my numbers and when was it PRINTED? I do not know if this will help sort this out but these are NOS panels that were tacked are decades ago. Mark A Maromonte.

[Barry Wolk]

I'd love to have a pair of "nostrils" to turn into bookends. Are they for sale?

[lincoln mark]

Barry, I am using one set on the crushed Mark. One set, MAYBE, on a 55 Capri I am doing as a custom. And the other set I was going to keep for the same reason, BUT, If I can not get the lines right on the 55 Capri I will let you know. You have my word they are yours if I do not use them! Any imfo on my parts numbers? Mark A Maromonte.

[Barry Wolk]

If my car weren't nearly perfect I'd consider splicing them into the fenders of my car. I think, personally, that they are the most artistic feature on the car.

[Roger Zimmermann]

The question is does anyone have a parts book showing my numbers and when was it PRINTED? I do not know if this will help sort this out but these are NOS panels that were tacked are decades ago. Mark A Maromonte.
Sorry, can't help, I have the same edition than yours, August, 1959.

[Jim Rohn]

I believe that Elmer Rohn, is Jim Rohn's father. If I'm correct, he was the engineer behind the A/C system in the car. Jim is on here and can fill in more.

correct, he did most of the HVAC on the car

I found out later that he co-holds/authored/designed the patent on automatic temperature control

[linmk2]

Cool. (Pun Intended).:D Thanks for the info. I've always liked the fact that there were not any plastic tubes coming out of the package shelf. Your dad did a great job.

[Doc]

Anyone who is serious about getting a pair of vents/nostrils--check out ebay today, someone is selling a salvaged pair. Starting bid is only $99. They look to be a little rough and are still attached to a residual part of the fender, but could presumably be cleaned and become the perfect piece of Mark II "art"...

[Chuck Lutz]

As we were on this subject in the New Registration area welcoming our new member Johnny, I thought I'd continue the A/C Nostril discussion here since we started this thread awhile back.

I remembered reading a snippet in the MKIIE by Elmer Rohn about “A/C Sniffles” and his vents and hose needing a little maintenance.

[Rick Payton]

FWIW my car is a factory 56 Air car without nostrils

[Chuck Lutz]

That makes sense Rick, as "L" would be Oct of 56. Your duct hoses are up front, right?

[Rick Payton]

"L" ??? Mine is an "I"

[Chuck Lutz]

Sorry, my bad. I read it wrong. Can I borrow $5k for Lasix? :D

[crystal59]

FWIW my car is a factory 56 Air car without nostrils

So are we able to determine when the last one had nostrils? Gary

[depmike38]

...I'm pretty sure a really "early" MK II would have had the quarter panel nostrils.

[Pat Marshall]

Nostrils, only if it was an air-conditioned car.

[depmike38]

Nostrils, only if it was an air-conditioned car.

Are you sure they didn't just block them off if the car didn't have air? It would have been a lot of extra expense to offer two different replacement quarter panels.:confused:

[Pat Marshall]

I'm positive that they didn't do that.

There are any number of pictures that show early non-ac cars without nostrils. (Personally, I own 1494 and I assure you that it doesn't have blocked off nostrils). There are other posts in the Forum supporting this, also this is covered in Buddy Holiday's Restoration Manual and the Mark II encyclopedias.

The early II's didn't have AC's so why would they have been made cars with A/C nostrils?

The nostrils were added when the A/C option was intoduced. The Nostrils were separate assemblies that were added to the fenders when it was determined that that car was going to be used for an A/C car.

When the volume of A/C cars grew sustantially they eliminated the nostrils (because of the instalation expense) leaving all subequent cars with the same exterior appearance.

[depmike38]

I follow your explanation but would they have modified the rear quarters going down the line which considering the dissimilar metals would have been time consuming or would they have pulled quarter stampings out and modified them at some earlier point. It just seemed like having them all come with the intakes and blocking them off if unused would have been more cost effective. Of course that was probably one of the things that contributed to the $10,000 + price. Ah well, who'll ever know. :D

[Pat Marshall]

Once they began the A/C production, they probably had a stock of fenders which they reserved for A/C cars. These would have to have had the cut-outs made in them. They then took the bronze nostrils and brazed them in place and then finished with lead filler. When they needed a set of fenders they would have pulled them and sent them to the line. Modifying the stamping dies to make the cut-outs would have been too expenseive.

Not doing anything on non-ac cars would be a darn-sight more cost effective then installing the nostrils and then blocking them off. Ole Henry would have rolled some heads over that one.

Remember the first several hundred cars were non-ac. Once the ac cars became a significant % of the mix, they did away with the nostrils for cost (reducing labor and materials) reasons and quality (leakage and water damage) issues.

[Doc]

During its restoration, our car was completely stripped to bare metal. There is no evidence of any sheet metal modification where the nostrils would have been; there must have been separate metal fabrication for the A/C cars and the non-A/C cars like ours.

[Pat Marshall]

The initial sheet metal fabrication (stamping and forming) was the same for all Mark II's. The nostril insertion was a post-fabrication modification (CUTTING THE HOLE AND BRAZING IN THE BRASS NOSTRILS) to the initial stamping.

[depmike38]

This has probably already been answered but where do the later 56 and 57 models draw fresh air from?

[Shelly Harris]

Those with 'nostrils' draw fresh air through them. There's a rotary control knob mounted on the front of the interior rear deck which varies the amount of outside air going through the evaporator coil vertically mounted in the front of the trunk.