Lincoln limo [Archive] - Mark II Forum - A Forum for Continental Mark II

Barry Wolk

01-14-2010, 10:42 PM

Any interest in following the build of my '68 Lincoln limousine?

This is my most recent update.

Decided to fit all the trim before I start with body filler.

The car has 6 "B" pillars, and they're all different. Decided to trim them to fit now instead of scratching up a new paint job.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3947.jpg

Got a new shop tool. Threw in some bumper bolts to see what it would do.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3945.jpg

After about 2 hours I had to shut it off because the noise was making me insane. I wasn't all that impressed. The sand blaster is certainly faster and more thorough. I'll install it in the warehouse where it won't bother anyone. I'll let the parts run longer and report on its performance.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3946.jpg

Roger Zimmermann

01-15-2010, 03:27 AM

Interesting picture! It seems the the center section (between the doors) was made with a cutted rear door and a section of sheetmetal having the same profile as the doors, welded together.
About your funny tool: what is the green stuff, stones? It must be very noisy!

Barry Wolk

01-15-2010, 08:43 AM

Those are abrasive embedded plastic media that vibrates, removing rust and light coatings. Does not remove paint.

The limo started off as a rather unusual vehicle as it is a splice of two cars, making it a 6-door limo. My use for it is different than airport transportation so I opted to eliminate the center doors in favor of less seating and more luxury.

The panels you speak of are a front and rear door from a salvage car combined to fit the door gaps properly without doing a lot of fabrication. I also salvaged the roof and all 4 fenders, plus a ton of trim and a halfway decent dash pad.

Here's what I've posted at The Lincoln Forum.net if you care to see the project from the beginning. Some of the early pictures have gone missing, but you'll get the idea.

http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=22862

Roger Zimmermann

01-15-2010, 09:50 AM

Thank you for the comments Barry. I have to register to the Lincoln forum to see the pictures.
If I do understand correctly, I have to e-mail to get a password. Strange and cumbersome process!

Barry Wolk

01-15-2010, 10:03 AM

You shouldn't have to register to see the thread. What you're experiencing is Cardomain's change in linking pictures.

Here's a link to the original site. I switched over to Photobucket for the more recent updates.

This will give you the backstory.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/752157

depmike38

01-15-2010, 10:52 AM

Barry, if you'd like I'll see if my friend would be willing to part out his 67. I know you don't need much but it sounds like your configuration is the same that Lehman-Peterson did his car. It's a complete car and it has it's divider set-up as well as a rear air unit and I think some sort of rear entertainment system. Let me know and I'll check as he's not going to build it.

Barry Wolk

01-15-2010, 11:04 AM

LP's are stretches, not splices. Mine's made from two cars. One car from the front bumper to the back side of the first "B" pillar and another car from the "A" pillar back. That's how they got 6 doors on it.

I would like to find some bucket seats for the front and back.

depmike38

01-15-2010, 11:16 AM

I don't know Barry I haven't looked at his in a while and I'm not sure if his is 6 doors long between the fenders and quarters or if it just has a 24" or so stretch. I'll look 'cause now I'm curious. The shame of it all is 18 years ago I know it ran and drove.

Roger Zimmermann

01-15-2010, 11:34 AM

What a story and what a work! Congratulation!
Your are right about the pictures. I can see them at the end in the Lincoln forum.

Barry Wolk

01-17-2010, 06:29 PM

I'm a freak about door gaps. It's what I look at when I judge cars. The Lincolns of this era had huge door gaps, and I can't figure out why.

When I came up with the idea of using a complete front door with about a foot of the rear door spliced on to the front of it to fill the space between the front and rear doors, I did so because creating a 51" wide panel was beyond the width of my 48" roller.

I wanted to use a complete door as a center panel as welding it in place would add a great deal of rigidity to the center section of the car. Filling the gap with the other door panel turned out to be a bit more of a challenge as the body lines have a very gentle curve that's not easily perceived.

The horizontal body line was the most important aspect to the final appearance of this car so making the body line line up correctly caused there to be about a 1/2" gap near the bottom of the door gap. I used the MIG welder to build up the edge of the door in steel. I rough shaped the opening with a abrasive 1/16" wheel and then used a grinding disc with a plastic backer to make the door gaps perfect. Using the factory edge at the rear of the front door as a guide I sanded away the edge of the mating surface until the plastic backer just fit in the gap. That gave me a 3/16" door gap, matching the rest of them.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3950.jpg

I pulled out all the stainless trim. It appears I got two cars worth of stainless when I bought the donor car. Now I have 3 1/2 cars worth to pick from.

I picked the best pieces and installed the rain gutter. The pieces I had were not straight as the window arch peaks and then runs down to meet the top of the front door. I had to straighten the stainless pieces very gradually as none of the were long enough before they took a big bend. That left me with about a 1 foot gap which I cut from one of the excess pieces. I think I'll hire a pro welder to TIG them while they're on the car. I can shape and metal finish them using the car as a jig.

I'm glad I'm doing this now. I would have ruined a new paint job by now.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3949.jpg

Mark_II_Mark

01-17-2010, 08:57 PM

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Roger Zimmermann

01-18-2010, 04:08 AM

It seems that Mark is a rebel giving much work to Shelly!

depmike38

01-18-2010, 03:25 PM

Don't know why it has to be such an issue. This is supposed to be an "off-topic" area of the forum where I assumed anything could be discussed that did not pertain directly to the Mark II as everyone here it seems has a myriad of interests and backgrounds. I, for one, enjoy reading things like this just to see what others are building and often you get good ideas. In this case his has got me thinking about the 67 Limo my friend owns.

Mad Scientist

01-18-2010, 04:05 PM

Of the different forums that I go most have an off-topic section and this is were I find that some of the most interesting discussions take place. However a machine shop forum that I follow does not have an of-topic section so all off-topics threads are preceded with an OT. Here too there are members that think if a topic doesn’t directly pertain to machining and the use of machine tools it doesn’t belong.
Yet the longest running record breaking thread (over 10,000 views):eek: was talking about the swine flu!
The purest were really sick about that one.:D

Mad Scientist

01-18-2010, 04:17 PM

That left me with about a 1 foot gap which I cut from one of the excess pieces. I think I'll hire a pro welder to TIG them while they're on the car.

What is this hiring a pro??? If you do all the welding by the time you're done YOU will be a pro. :):)

By the time I got to seam welding by new gas tank I had only two tiny pin holes that needed redoing. Although I still coated the inside with gas tank sealer.;)

Barry Wolk

01-18-2010, 04:30 PM

The rain gutter material is about 18 gauge stainless. I don't think I can produce the necessary weld with my MIG welder. Now, if I had a TIG and a lot of practice..................

Chuck Lutz

01-19-2010, 12:17 AM

Barry, you're correct. TIG is the way to go and it's not for weekend warriors. Done correctly, the metal can be fused with very little or no rod added. I wish we were closer than the 2400 miles (est), I'd do for you. We actually have a portable unit but you are in the heart of industry and I'm sure someone could "zap" it right out for you.
For what it's worth and I'm not sure it would work well in your application but with the correct flux, you can solder stainless too.

Chuck Lutz

01-19-2010, 12:31 AM

Barry Wolk

01-19-2010, 08:23 AM

1. A magnet does stick to the brightwork.

2. It gets done when it gets done. However, I was planning on welding the trim on the car to use it as a jig, before I paint it. I'd like to paint it before spring.

3. I'm building it for her. It just has to be finished before I lose my night vision.

Reminds me of an old joke.

Two elderly ladies were talking about one of their recent betrothals.

"Why'd you marry the old coot? He's ugly, he's foul-tempered and he smells bad!"

The other replies, "He can still drive at night."

Hal W May

01-19-2010, 01:28 PM

Barry Wolk

01-20-2010, 06:56 PM

I still hate the noise, but it's quieter after putting mineral spirits into the mix. I thought it worked best as a dry system but I was convinced otherwise. The mineral spirits hold the rust particles in suspension, turning it into a brown muck. Eventually, the mineral spirits evaporates, leaving behind a white powder.

Several people tell me that they let them run all night and shut them off while working. It's noise is at a certain frequency that makes me grit my teeth when it's on. I left it on tonight. We'll see.

Barry Wolk

01-20-2010, 07:45 PM

Barry, One other questions. OK 3...
1. Is the SS 300 series or 400? I know most brite work on some cars is usually 400 series. I might expect that a car like yours would have the best materials. The best way to find out would be with a magnet. 400 is magnetic, 300 isn't.
2. Do you have a timeline on the Limo project or is it "as time allows"?
3. Did you once say that this was your wife's car?

My welder came by. Liked the idea of jig-welding the trim on the car. Said he was concerned that heat marks might blemish the stainless. He said his usual customers don't mind because they're typically custom stainless headers. I should be able to sand and finish out the heat marks, shouldn't I?

I asked him whether he thought it was 300 or 400 and said that 400 is typically military spec stuff that's not typically used in brightwork.

I set up my polishing rig today. Made a spindle adapter out of a 5/8" coarse threaded coupling and a 5/8" bolt. Stacked up a bunch of 1/2" thick polishing wheels and went to work.

Mad Scientist

01-20-2010, 10:56 PM

The rain gutter material is about 18 gauge stainless. I don't think I can produce the necessary weld with my MIG welder. Now, if I had a TIG and a lot of practice..................

Have you ever considered using oxy-acetylne?
I have been reading a magazine article by an old-time welder he has used all types of welding equipment and is convinced that for anything up to about a ¼” thick oxy-acetylne it is the way to go. Easier to control then electric and great for small fussy work. Also it supposed to produce a less porous weld, something when welding up gas tanks is moderately important.

Chuck Lutz

01-21-2010, 09:10 PM

My welder came by. Liked the idea of jig-welding the trim on the car. Said he was concerned that heat marks might blemish the stainless. He said his usual customers don't mind because they're typically custom stainless headers. I should be able to sand and finish out the heat marks, shouldn't I?

I assume you meant the welder liked the idea of "TIG" welding. (Tungsten Inert Gas). Barry, the grinding and cleaning is really a multi-step process. Hopefully, he doesn't build up too much added rod. Whatever is put on and sticks up has to come down. It would be really fantastic if the metal was fused together with very little added rod.
Once the weld is complete the rough grinding can gently take place with an 80 or 120 grit disc just to take down the weld to the base metal. Yes the burn mark may probably still be there but all good things in time. This is on the surface only and will buff out.
Once you're down and flush the next step would be a start a DA (disk action oscillating) sander to blend it super flush. This is pretty important as ANY variation will, when polished, show as a tell tale blemish as being welded. Don't be too worried about effecting adjacent areas either side of the weld. It's part of the blending. I would get this to a 320 grit before even starting the buffing. Your set up with buffing should do fine but you'll want to start with a "hemp wheel" which is coarse but is still for buffing. It just has hemp strands embedded in the muslin. Get a selection of rouges. Red is the most abrasive (use with the hemp) working up to the black to finish off the buffing with the muslin wheels.
It's not rocket science but it would be good to practice on some pieces. Patience is the key. The more time you invest to slowly bring the weld down and polished it back up to bright will pay off. You may even want to buff out the full length on the final passes. Don't go out and buy full bars of rouge. If you can't get them in small sizes let me know. I'll send you some.

Barry Wolk

01-21-2010, 09:32 PM

Did I ever tell you about the 400 hours I spent polishing my trailer from 50 years of exposure. I've learned all the techniques. Luckily Spartan used Alclad so I was able to work with pure aluminum as a surface. It polished up real good. It became invisible to cross-traffic as the sides are curved and do not reflect headlights.

I'm using my bench grinder as a polishing rig. There's a ton of stainless on this car. I'm finding that Nuvite F7 is working better than the rouge because I can spread the Nuvite on the work and meter its use.

I meant jig-welded. I want him to weld the gutter while the pieces are installed on the car, acting as a jig. I'm always concerned about movement when welding. I've seen heat do some very funny things. There's no way the molding would come out straight if it were not attached to the car. I did some pretty fine joints so a lot of material will not be needed. He took a scrap piece with him to cut apart and put back together enough times to get it down. I told him that I was paying for an hour of practice so that he gets it right.

I'd love to see your shop. I'd be like a kid in a candy store. Probably a bunch of old-school shop equipment side by side with computerized mills.

Mad needs to give us a tour of his shop. Lots of his stuff is home-made, but very cool. One of us should start a thread about our tools.:D

Chuck Lutz

01-21-2010, 10:24 PM

LOL.. yes, I did forget about that. The trailer came out great. I guess this is a bit different as it's somewhat like jewelry.
I'm going to look into Nuvite and maybe try some. Sometime we get stuck in old school techniques. Point of fact.. look at some of the new stuff 3M is doing with non-clogging discs today for aluminum.
Using the car as a jig (fixture) is a fantastic idea as there is some "shrinkage" that occurs but not too much with tig. Still, a good move.
And you're always welcome to visit the shop. As I walk through during the day with all the brakes, welders, polishing and machines running, there's no nicer sound than that of machination well used. :D

Barry Wolk

01-21-2010, 10:38 PM

Tuesday is Boys Night Out at my shop. I have a dear friend that works for Ford, kinda up there. High pressure job. He and his teenage son would come by and help me with a project or simply clean up my shop. He calls it his "therapy". His boy is off at college now. He helps me with the limo and I'm helping him convert a 1940 Dodge 1-ton stake truck into a 1/2 ton pick-up for his wife. Now mine wants one.:rolleyes:

Two weeks ago he brings his brainiac tomboy daughter. She just graduated commercial pilot school at 20. Wanted to learn how to weld. Her father fits her up with goggles, but her pony tail gets in the way. She pulls out the band and starts gas welding. As she tips her head forward to get a better look at what she's doing he long blond hair flips forward and catches on fire. He pats it out, she shrugs it off and goes back to welding. Must be nice, all I can get my wife to do is run the power miter box.:D

Chuck Lutz

01-21-2010, 10:47 PM

LOL.. you have to love the thirst for knowledge.

Barry Wolk

01-21-2010, 10:48 PM

I restored the stainless on this truck.

It was pretty beat up.

Chuck Lutz

01-21-2010, 11:05 PM

Ok, one of those in the last photo would make one helluva hood ornament.:D

Barry Wolk

01-24-2010, 10:51 PM

I learned a very valuable lesson. I learned that I should have labeled more parts than I did. I also learned that window lift mechanisms can be very dangerous to take apart when they aren't hooked to a door. Ouch!

The biggest lesson I learned is that old car's windows stop working for one simple reason. The grease on the slides hardens and become like an adhesive. The same grease seems to gum up the spiral gears of the drive mechanism. The electric motors go bad when they overheat from all the cumulative drag due to ancient grease. Mineral spirits cut through the grease but I found rust from water that had come in from the failed seals above so I glass beaded them clean. It left much of the original plating, so a layer of proper grease should give me another 40+ years use. Basically a simple cleaning and lubrication brought the window operation to like-new.

One of the window slides acts as a window rest when the window is down. I used a piece of microfiber in place of the worn out felt. It won't scratch the glass.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_2592.jpg

Installed the wiring harnesses for both rear doors. Discovered that someone had absconded with the unique window switch connectors when the donor car was in storage. Arggggg!!!!!!!!

Now that the doors have all their inner workings they slam with a resounding thud, like a bank vault door.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3953.jpg

Found this little contraption in a box of parts I inherited with the donor car. It's a period-correct automatic headlight dimming system sensor that was factory installed on some cars. It's housing would be painted body color or was available in a brushed chrome, which is perfect for this car. It will not work without the other parts, but sure will look cool mounted next to the antenna on the front fender.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/IMG_3944.jpg

Barry Wolk

01-29-2010, 08:22 PM

I'm kinda proud of this solution.

The original wiring harness on the limo was a mess. Nothing worked. It had been hacked into so many times that it was just a jumble of wires. The only section that was undamaged was the section that ran from the firewall to the first "B" pillar. It ran through a channel that was protected by the sill plates. That was exactly the only section I needed to make extension harnesses instead of extending the the existing harness with double the butt splices.

This worked out kind of like the center filler panel made from a full front door and the front section of a rear door. That was so that I would have factory door gaps. This was kind of like that. I used the first foot of the old firewall wiring harness that the side harnesses plugged into. That's what now plugs into the unaltered harness I salvaged from the donor car. I then salvage about 3 1/2 feet of the original limo side harnesses that had been protected all those years. I matched everything up, color for color and butt-spliced both ends together.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3963.jpg

Barry Wolk

02-01-2010, 08:22 AM

This applies to our cars as well.

This is why old power windows and seats fail. The moisture of the grease seems to evaporate over time turning it to the viscosity of very thick paste, almost a wax consistency. What was meant to be a lubricant turns into a drag on the system. It's probably happening to your newer cars, too.

The motor used on power widows and seats are pretty universal in operation. Direction is changed by a polarity change to the motor. Typically, speed reduction is used in increasing power and changing direction of the energy produced. The gears get stuck to the housing causing a drag on the motor. Drag is further compounded in all the joints of the window lift mechanism, guides, rollers and tracks. Motor failure happened when it overheats trying to move too big a load.

Thorough cleaning of the old grease was accomplished with soaking in mineral spirits and repeated air blasts to carry away loosened grease. After cleaning and lubrication with grease commonly used in hand-held power tools the motors and gear reducers operated like brand new. None of the windows worked at all when I got the car. In fact, two of the side windows were duct taped closed.

I even took the 12-volt motors apart and removed all traces of old grease. Be careful as the spring loaded brushes pop out of place and can be a bear to get back in. Using paper clips and needle nose pliers I was able to retract the brushes and reinstall the armature. They ran smooth and quiet afterward.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3969.jpg

The next step is to remove the old dashboard and strip it down to its shell, which I'll sand blast and paint black, like the original. I'll transfer parts from the donor dashboard and install the main wiring harness. Once I put the dash back in I'll be able to start it and check all systems before pulling the engine and trans for a complete engine compartment refurbishing.

With windows it it doesn't look quite so skeletal.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3972.jpg

depmike38

02-01-2010, 08:18 PM

Barry, if that's the window motor I think it is Ford used it in almost everything for years. Another thing I've had them do to fail is the plastic pins that act as sort of a shock mechanism between the small metal gear and the outer plastic one will disintegrate. Ford only sold the whole gear mechanism back when you could get them. A company called Henry's Automotive Warehouse sell's a kit to replace your torque pins for $13. It'll do 5 motors.

Barry Wolk

02-01-2010, 08:26 PM

Only 4 of my motors had the shock absorbers. The other two (vent windows) did not. The little drum-like cylinders all appeared to be made of nylon and showed no signs of wear. Actually, all the motors and gearboxes looked brand new inside, once the sludge was washed away.

Everything is working so smoothly now. I'm working on the firewall wiring and vacuum system. I'll post pictures tomorrow.

Barry Wolk

02-06-2010, 10:21 PM

Dashboard.

In true fashion I labeled nothing when I took the car apart. I like jigsaw puzzles. Turns out it wouldn't have mattered as both the donor car and the limo were piped incorrectly for the controls to work properly. The job is not as difficult as one might imagine as the car is designed to be assembled one way and in a certain order. It only took removing the dash two additional times to get everything in place.

The old dashboard was a sorry mess. It's wiring harness had been hack to pieces and the dashboard severely altered to take a flush-mount taxi meter where the radio should go. I was also concerned about the hvac system as the only time I drove the car, none of the controls worked. That's because the vacuum door lock system had a broken pipe so nothing vacuum operated worked.

This is the dash before:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3979.jpg

Once the dashboard was out of the way it revealed the octopus of the hvac system.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3984.jpg

I removed it for thorough cleaning and found that it had been the recipient of a hacked repair to the housing that left the diverter doors inoperable. Luckily I had another from the donor car. These things were gross inside. I sand-blasted everything.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3986.jpg

The inner diverter door used to have a foam insulator attached to the doors for noise or insulation. Couldn't see making that mistake twice so I used some bubble plastic cut to size. From what I've see the stuff is pretty much forever. I simply cut some pieces to size and mounted with a spray adhesive.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3989.jpg

Seemed to work pretty good. The doors didn't clang any more.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3991.jpg

Noted the very same factory assembly flaw on both cars. When assembling the car the engine compartment section of the hvac was hung on the car with one stamped sheet-metal nut that was supposed to be removed when the inner distribution duct system was installed. By leaving this nut in place the housing was twisted and it never compressed the seal as is clearly visible that there was no compression of the insulating mat in that corner.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_3992.jpg

Connected refurbished dashboard to ductwork, vacuum lines and wiring harnesses.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0002.jpg

Mostly reinstalled dashboard.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0006.jpg

Next step, install new engine compartment and hvac harnesses and attempt to start the car to generate enough vacuum to test all systems.

Barry Wolk

02-14-2010, 07:31 PM

Back to the beginning. December 14, 2004.

I took delivery of a pile of junk. Nothing worked, but it ran and it stopped. Thankful for that. I was so disappointed in my purchase that I stashed it for several years before starting on it. What got me going on it again was my friend Shawn, a true Ford guy. He and his son were looking for something to do and volunteered to be my helpers, for which I am grateful. I always saved something for them to do on Tuesday nights for a misnamed "Boys Night Out", since we always spend it in the same place, my shop.

What made the project go forward was the acquisition of a parts car that was someone's project gone bad. I was able to transplant all the working systems from the parts car to the limo. As of today, everything electrical works. The last step was the window switch restoration. That's a huge step as these cars are fairly complicated.

I gave it a shot of starting fluid, turned the key and it started right up.

This is what I started with.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/Picture0013.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/Picture0015.jpg

Mad Scientist

02-14-2010, 11:24 PM

I gave it a shot of starting fluid, turned the key and it started right up.

Congratulations!
That is always a good feeling, proves that all the hard work paid off. :):):)

Barry Wolk

03-11-2010, 05:11 PM

Once I got the engine running smooth as glass I made sure that all vacuum and hydraulic systems worked properly. The hydraulic wipers gave me fits until I realized that there was so little ATF that the system was acting crazy. It's kind of an interesting mix of electrical, hydraulic and vacuum systems. When you push the washer button it makes electrical contact, operating the spritzer motor. That same push slides open a vacuum switch that sends vacuum to the pump, turning on the hydraulic motor through a vacuum operated switch. That vacuum signal passes through a vacuum timer, something I'd never seen before. It's basically a cotton pad with a screw in the center of it. The tighter the screw, the longer vacuum stays in the line that turns the unit on. As the vacuum bleeds down through the compressed cotton the the motor shuts off. Now, twisting the knob, instead of pushing it, operates a hydraulic metering valve within the motor giving infinitely variable speed control. Unnecessarily complicated, but extremely reliable.

When I was satisfied that I wouldn't have to do any further trouble-shooting after final assembly I started disassembling the engine compartment in preparation of pulling the engine for a complete refurbishing of the engine compartment and a gasket set for the engine.

I don't think I'll have a space problem getting the engine out after removing all the ancillary stuff on the front of the engine.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0250.jpg

Being a long-time member of the Lincoln Forum I had heard horror stories of wrecked engines that died from pieces of a timing gear nylon tooth coating coming off and either plugging or stopping the oil pump. I removed the vibration damper and crankshaft drive hydraulic pump. That pump supplies pressure to the wipers and power steering and uses ATF instead of PS fluid. Another Lincoln oddity. I then removed the water pump and timing belt cover and found that my gears had been replaced with all steel gears. The timing belt is a little worn out, so I'll plan on replacing it as a precaution.

Havent discovered if this is the original engine or not. It might be the powerful 365 horsepower gruntmaster, but it runs like it's been rebuilt. I just don't know how many times.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0248.jpg

I'm off to spend three sunny days in Florida at the Amelia Island Concours. We meet our Porsche Continental there around noon tomorrow. We're suppose to have great weather. We always do.

Shelly Harris

03-11-2010, 10:27 PM

What color are you going to paint it?

Barry Wolk

03-12-2010, 06:11 AM

Same color as the Mark II.

Shelly Harris

03-12-2010, 09:21 AM

Same color as the Mark II.

YES!!! I was hesitant in commenting that I hoped you wouldn't paint it that original awful color. The dark blue or a gorgious glossy deep black would look awesome.

When you're finished I want to hire you out for a few occasions. Do you have your cap and uniform ready?

Barry Wolk

03-12-2010, 04:39 PM

It'd debut will be to take us to the charity event for the NAIAS, sometime in the future. You can drive me!

Barry Wolk

03-24-2010, 04:36 PM

Had a great time in Florida. Took a trophy from the Hagerty Youth Judging Program. Took a third against those two beauties. Kids seem to be unaffected by rarity and value. They just picked what they liked.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Amelia/63434-1.jpg

Got back and Shawn showed up for BNO ready to pull the engine out. He was covered from head to toe, but the beast was released.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0460.jpg (http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/?action=view&current=IMG_0460.jpg)

Engine bay is huge. (EDITOR So was your pic... so I had to delete it. Please limit to 750...)

[/URL]

Used the lift to pull the intake manifold. Learned my lesson last time I did a 460. Manifold is incredibly heavy.

Pushrod valley is incredibly clean. Virtually no build-up, anywhere.

[URL="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/?action=view&current=IMG_0526.jpg"]http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0526.jpg (http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/?action=view&current=IMG_0461.jpg)

Don't know yet if the valves need any attention, but there's not much build-up here, either.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0528.jpg (http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/?action=view&current=IMG_0528.jpg)

The bores are smooth. There's no sign of the original cross-hatching but the ridge at the top of the bore is almost imperceptible.

There's no movement in the rod bearings and none on the journals, as far as I can tell. It ran so smooth that it must have been a low-mileage rebuild as it did not have the original nylon covered gear nor was there any sign of any debris in the pan. It was remarkably clean.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0527.jpg (http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/?action=view&current=IMG_0527.jpg)

I think I lucked out. I've ordered a complete gasket set and 3 piece timing set. That and a carb kit should be all I need. I'm going to put it back together and use it as-is, much cleaner, of course.

I do have a question. I thought it odd that some of the lifters sat near the middle of the cam lobes, but a bunch sat offset quite aways. Is this normal?

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0532.jpg (http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/?action=view&current=IMG_0532.jpg)

Shelly Harris

03-24-2010, 05:01 PM

Considering the timing gears and chain were replaced, perhaps the camshaft was replaced with one which looks like a poor fit ???

I think I'm picking up my Mark IV this SAt and am considering some engine mods on its 460. Since you have your engine out I would seriously consider going Edlebrook's performance intake manifold, their mild cam, and their 750 carb. Make sure the timing chain gearing is a "straight up" set. If not it's a cheap improvement. You might as well put in a new water pump while you can... also cheap. That stuff will bring the HP well over 400.

Barry Wolk

03-24-2010, 05:32 PM

It's a '68 engine. The first 460. No pollution controls other than PCV. 365 hp right out of the box without spending a dime.

Shelly, I'd advise you to spend little and make what you have run the best it can. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Pertronix coil, kit and wires with a new rotor and cap, vacuum tune it and then reassess. Get some serious help if you're swapping the intake. My wife dropped it helping me. Hasn't offered to help since.

Shelly Harris

03-24-2010, 06:06 PM

At a minimum I need to replace the timing chain and install "straight up" gears on my 1974. The ignition is electronic called "dynaspark" so the Petronix is out.

I forgot that yours is a '68. Those early 460's do have a reputation for performance. Up to 1972 or so Marks were sold with the sales pitch of being very quick, great performing full size land yachts. I suggested a new carb since yours probably needs a rebuild anyway.

Barry Wolk

03-24-2010, 06:46 PM

Actually, it ran fine. Just some seepage around the top gasket. A rebuild kit should do the job.

Yes, if yours has the nylon coated timing gear they can be disastrous if those bits clog up the oil pump screen.

My '77 Town Car has the original nylon covered gears. Now that I've taken apart this engine, taking apart that timing set shouldn't be a problem.

I hear what you're saying about the water pump, but it's so easy to do, I'll worry about it if it fails. It didn't leak when I had it running.

Mad Scientist

03-24-2010, 09:08 PM

I do have a question. I thought it odd that some of the lifters sat near the middle of the cam lobes, but a bunch sat offset quite aways. Is this normal?

As I understand it the reason for that is so that when the lifter are bouncing up and down they are also forced to rotate. This produces a more uniform wear.

If you decide to change the manifold, consider a Offenhouser dual port. Note this is not the same as a dual plane. It is designed to give more low end torque and better economy.

Also it is aluminum so you could have your wife put it in place.:)

Shelly Harris

03-24-2010, 09:29 PM

As I understand it the reason for that is so that when the lifter are bouncing up and down they are also forced to rotate. This produces a more uniform wear.

Yes, that shook up my memory. I now remember reading that somewhere...

Barry Wolk

03-29-2010, 08:29 AM

Took the oil pan off and found, nothing. No sludge, no metal, just bits of the hardened and cracked valve guide seals.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_0533.jpg

At this point I cleaned up the block, removed the residue from the top of the pistons and started putting it back together.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_4011.jpg

Found three exhaust valves that hadn't been seating properly, possibly from the rocker arms being adjusted too tight. Seated all the valves with compound. Everything cleaned up nicely. Installed new valve guide seals and put everything back together.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_4010.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_4009.jpg

Chasing the threads made reassembly a breeze. A little oil on the threads of the head bolts will give me a true torque reading.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_4012.jpg

Oops, made a huge mistake. Put the intake manifold on before installing the lifters. D'oh! Luckily the sealant hadn't set up and all is well.

Next step, paint.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Limo/IMG_4015.jpg