Where were the MkII's delivered?

[johnnybgoode]

I was reading a reply in another thread in here, and I came to think of question that would be interesting.

Is there a list of where the Mk II's first were delivered to, or is it something you can tell from the dataplate?

Elvis cant be first owner for all them you know :D

From my point of view I would especially like to know if any Mk II's were first delivered in Europe, or anywhere else outside the USA?

[Shelly Harris]

If you get the "Production Order" it includes the name, address of the dealer to whom it was shipped and it may also have the name of the first owner.

[Barry Wolk]

The Mark II Encyclopedia has a complete listing of all of the "Ordered" cars, with original owners and dealership's names. Many of the Production Orders have no owner's names, but do have dealership information and their location.

The list I have is cumbersome as it's alphabetical, not sequential. It's a pain to scan through pages and pages. Hmmmmmmm................. I wonder if Lowell Domholt has that info to share with us. I'll find out.

[Chuck Lutz]

Barry, I wonder if you could scan the info with some recognition software and build a spreadsheet to sort the numbers and owners? Ok.. it could work. :)

Oh, BTW.. I was informed by Research at The Henry Ford that my production order is on it's way as of today. Can't wait to see it. 1 week turn around. Not bad!

[vancec]

Don't know if this is off the subject but I've wondered about who my Introductory Unit was delivered to so I got the PO from the Ford museum. In the Dealer section, the original first line is XXXXed out just leaving J.V. Thorndike, Inc, Omaha. This document is second generation, at least, so even with my Photoshop forensic skills I couldn't get anything out of that first line except XXXXX X XXXXX MOTORS, INC.
I found out Thorndike was a Lincoln dealership owner in that area since 1916 but I'll never know, from this, who bought the car. I just wonder why the first line would have been deleted like that? Maybe just a billing thing but weird.
And delivered with "no radio kit". Jeez, why no radio in a Mark II?

[Barry Wolk]

The original owner of your car was Ford Motor Company, as were all Introductory Units. I don't believe they crossed off the original owner's name, possibly a dealer name. It just looks like they made a typo. These were carbon copies so you couldn't erase so item were X'ed out.

It was common for the early cars to be missing some parts as there were definite shortages. Yours was just missing a radio, which was later installed by the dealer.

The chances of you finding the original public owner of an Introductory Unit are about nil.

[vancec]

The chances of you finding the original public owner of an Introductory Unit are about nil.

Only IF the dealership was still in business AND had the records, I guess.

But it doesn't matter to me; in fact it's better 'cause I'm gonna cruise it down the road topless (the car, not me) BLASTING "Just a gigolo" and just BELIEVE that Louis Prima owned the car

[Chuck Lutz]

Only IF the dealership was still in business AND had the records, I guess.

But it doesn't matter to me; in fact it's better 'cause I'm gonna cruise it down the road topless (the car, not me) BLASTING "Just a gigolo" and just BELIEVE that Louis Prima owned the car

Vance, FWIW the MKIIE 1992 version only shows one car delivered to / from / by JV Thorndike C56B1970. I'm looking in the updated 2002 version but haven't found any others.

[Don Keller]

I requested a P.O. from Henry Ford last week and was told that C56R3838 was lost in the fire along with many others. Have others run into this?

I also contacted RM Auctions as this car was sold at the '03 J.C. Daniels Estate Auction asking who owned the car prior to Daniels. They responded that because of confidentiality law, they would ask the seller(?) to contact me directly if he would release the info. Waiting to see if I hear anything. Of course, Daniels is deceased and the purchaser at that time doesn't know who sold it to Daniels. If anyone would happen to know who sold the 78? Continentals/Lincolns at that sale and had any pull in getting that person to release the info, it would sure be helpful to many of us.

Finally, you all have done a tremendous amount of work creating the Forum database of Mark IIs and giving free access to Forum members. I was wondering if the Lincoln Continental Club; Mark II Enterprises; and any others has shared their data base to consolidate them into as complete a document as possible. I'm like many of you, I would like to accumulate as much history as possible and we are a relatively small group. I got some more pictures of the '57 from Harry Gail Cissell (a nice guy) who owned the car before Dr. George. It was really fine looking a few years ago.

Thanks.
Don

[Chuck Lutz]

Good luck with your quest for knowledge, Don. It's so much fun to do the scavenger hunt thing especially when it's your car. :)
As for developing the end all database we have had input from various sources in varying degrees but some of the best are the contributions are from our members who dig up so many facts and cars not documented. Jack Rosen has been very helpful with junked cars no longer in circulation. He knows so much about the cars and the ones that are still in operation. I hope to someday compare notes with him about current locations and even owners while keeping in mind that this subject is also his livelihood.
I'm sorry that Benson couldn't help with the production orders but you might be able to get the original invoice from Jack (as I did).

I've posted below the sheet that Benson gave me regarding the lost record for the various models.

[vancec]

Vance, FWIW the MKIIE 1992 version only shows one car delivered to / from / by JV Thorndike C56B1970. I'm looking in the updated 2002 version but haven't found any others.

Chuck thanks for the legwork! (;) that's the name of my company... legworkcreative.com ) So who knows what you yet may turn up for Throrndike. You'd think a company that owned a chain of Lincoln dealerships starting in 1916 would create more hits on Google.

And that is a great suggestion from Don Keller about MarkII Enterprises; I bet Jack Rosen has accumulated a lot of data. Maybe we should all ask him to contribute... Jack, can you help us?

[Barry Wolk]

I requested a P.O. from Henry Ford last week and was told that C56R3838 was lost in the fire along with many others. Have others run into this?

You spoke to a less than knowledgeable person. The Mark II records were stored at the Pilot Plant, not lost in the Rotunda fire. That's what burned and took out lots of records.

Yours was a very late car. Sales were waning and they had laid off most of the staff. Your records are likely misplaced or misfiled. I will look for you the next time I am at the BFRC.

[Don Keller]

Thank you Barrry and Chuck. I am attaching info from the Benson Center that I found to very interesting, although you all may be already familiar with it. It includes some interviews on line by Douglas McClure with the Mark II players and references many other interviews and documents that are available in hard copy at the Ford Center. For example, it includes references to the convertibles; a four dour prototype; and all kinds of candid and humorous stories like how the rear Mark II emblem came about. I wish I were closer to the center. If I am contacted by the person who handled the J.C. Daniels auction, is there any interest in requesting any Mark II documentation that they might have?

Thanks.
Don

Douglas T. McClure records series, 1951-1956.
by Ford Motor Company. Continental Division.
Quantity/Description: 41.4 cubic ft., 2 volumes, 1 oversize box, and 1 rolled item.

History: Douglas McClure was the sales manager for Continental Division from 1953 to 1956.

Summary: The Douglas T. McClure records series is organized into eight subseries. The Dealer records subseries, 1953-1956 (2.4 cubic ft.) contains Continental automobile dealer status reports; intra-company communications and correspondence between Douglas T. McClure and district sales managers regarding Continental automobile dealers; information regarding the Lincoln-Mercury National Dealer Council in 1955 and the Lincoln-Mercury Merchandising Conference in 1953; dealer operations reports; statistical data on dealer sales and net profit; and a dealer study of current and potential Continental automobile dealers around the United States. The Engineering records subseries, 1951-1955 (1.2 cubic ft.), contains Continental Mark II designs prepared by various designers; design specifications of the Continental Model 60A, and an essay entitled Birth of the Continental by Edward Martin. The Market Research records subseries, 1951-1955 (2.8 cubic ft.), contains published surveys from the automotive, fur, and travel industries; estimates on Continental sales volume; photographs of Ford, Chrysler, and General Motors automobiles; transcripts and correspondence regarding personal interviews with prospective Continental buyers regarding automobile preferences. The Meeting records subseries, 1951-1956 (4.4 cubic ft. and 1 rolled item), contains agendas and meeting minutes of the Advertising Committee, Operating Committee, Product Committee, Sales Department, and the Vehicle Quality Committee; glass lantern slides of a presentation outline regarding advertising pricing and public relations activities of the Lincoln Division; meeting minutes documenting the creation of the Continental automobile; and merchandising proposals. The Production records subseries, 1955-1956 (3.2 cubic ft.), contains production records for the Continental Mark II Model 60A Sport Coupe. The production records are numbered from C567980 to C56J3348, but many of the numbers are missing. The Public Relations records subseries, 1953-1956 (15.4 cubic ft. and 2 volumes), contains correspondence regarding Continental public relations activities; newspaper clippings regarding the Continental automobile; photographs documenting auto shows, automobile parts, clay models of proposed designs, construction of the Lincoln plant in Novi, Michigan in 1956, groundbreaking ceremony for the Continental Division building, interior and exterior shots of Continental automobiles, personnel, and William Clay Ford; and press packet artwork. The Sales records subseries, 1953-1956 (3.6 cubic ft.), contains statistical reports compiled by the Sales Planning and Analysis Section; correspondence between Douglas T. McClure and automobile dealers regarding early orders for Continental automobiles grouped alphabetically by sales district. The Subject Files subseries, 1953-1956 (8.4 cubic ft. and 1 oversize box), contains intra-company communications documenting the administrative operations of the Continental Division; budgets, correspondence, office forms, and chronological files documenting the development of the Continental Division; and lists of past and present owners of Continentals and other luxury automobiles.

Finding Aids: Box list available.

Donor: Ford Motor Company Archives donation, 1964. Accession 624.

Access: The records are open for research.

Subjects: Advertising -- Automobiles
Automobile dealers
Automobile engineers
Automobile factories -- Michigan.
Automobile industry and trade
Automobiles -- Design and construction
Automobiles -- Exhibitions.
Automobiles -- Prices
Chrysler automobile
Consumers' preferences
Ford automobile
Fur trade
General Motors automobiles
Industrial designers
Lincoln automobile
Lincoln Continental automobile
Sales promotion
Tourism

Subjects (Names): Ford, William Clay, 1925-
McClure, Douglas T. (Douglas Templeton), 1924-
Ford Motor Company. Continental Division.
Ford Motor Company. Lincoln Division.
Ford Motor Company. Lincoln-Mercury Division.
Ford Motor Company. Mercury Division.
Ford Motor Company -- Public relations.
Ford Motor Company. Sales Planning and Analysis Section.
Ford Motor Company. Special Product Operations.

Genre: Lantern slides.
Photographs.

Preferred Citation: Item, folder, box, Accession 624, subseries, Douglas T. McClure records series, Continental Division (Ford Motor Company) records subgroup, Ford Motor Company Automotive Divisions records collection, Benson Ford Research Center, The Henry Ford.

Part of/In: Continental Division (Ford Motor Company) records subgroup.
Ford Motor Company Automotive Divisions records collection.


Copy/Holding information
Location Collection Call No. Status
Benson Ford Research Center Archival collection Douglas T. McClure records series Reading Room Use

[Barry Wolk]

I've been through every file in the Continental records. I've never seen mention of McClure's interview. Can you provide a link?

[Chuck Lutz]

Hey, this could be juicy.. :)

[Don Keller]

Barry,

The link to the McClure documentation is as follows, however, most of it is in boxes at the Henry Ford:

http://catalog.dalnet.lib.mi.us/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=U28314L280Y45.220&profile=henryford&source=~!merge&view=subscriptionsummary&uri=full=3100033~!98981~!7&ri=1&aspect=subtab318&ipp=20&spp=20&staffonly=&term=Continental+mark+II&index=.BFGW&uindex=&aspect=subtab318&menu=search&ri=1#focus

The link that Chuck and others will really enjoy is:

http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Oral_histories.htm

This link is to the list of interviews by David Crippen who was the head of the Henry Ford Archives and did interviews and bios of all the big players in the "Big Four Plus" auto industry in the late 1980s. Of the links that are on line at this link, most every Ford executive goes into detail about the Mark II. I had no idea that these people changed corporations like they changed their shirts. Their comments were not to be released until they retired. One refers to Bill Ford as "nice but stupid". It gets into the Fords envolvement, Iacoca, McNamarra...it's kind of like an HBO mini-series. It delves into their whole auto industry involvement including the T-bird, Mustang, Cadillacs and Tuckers. I just stumbled into this, but it would sure be interesting to be able to read the other interviews as only a half dozen are on line. Just skim through the dialogue and look for Continental Mark II if you aren't interested in all the nastiness.

Don