Bendix Tredle-Vac

[Continental59]

First in a Series DIY001

First in a Series DIY001 Bendix Tredel-Vac Restoration.

This unit is one of the most problematic parts on our cars.
First lets examine the real problem.
Note that the shaft of this unit displaces the brake fluid, unlike a conventional master cylinder.
After dis-assembly the casting must be inspected. The inside counter-bore should be free of deterioration. Pitting of any kind will make this casting unusable. This is the root cause of failure.
The casting can be bored out and sleeved with a stainless steel insert.
DO NOT HONE THE BORE ….It cannot be resurfaced !
It is very important that the rubber packing along with the Bakelite washer and steel washer fit snug in the bore.
The rest of the Restoration is straight forward. Here is a link to my pictures.

http://public.fotki.com/acc7484/bendixtreadelvac/

http://images40.fotki.com/v1334/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3735-vi.jpg
http://images43.fotki.com/v1324/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3736-vi.jpg
Picture 3734 through 3737 show the major components prepped refinished and ready for re-assembly
Alcohol is used to lubricate the rubber components for assembly.


http://images41.fotki.com/v1344/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3738-vi.jpg
Picture 3738 Shows the use of a 1 ¼ socket to install the check valve.
The check valve tension spring and fitting are the three items on top shown in frame 3736.
In order of assembly: valve spring, check valve, seal o-ring and valve fitting.


http://images40.fotki.com/v1337/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3739-vi.jpg
Picture 3739 Shows the Packing Assembly in order.
Note: The counter bore is clean and free of pitting!
Assemble over the steel plunger In order of assembly: steel cup retainer, rubber packing cup, Bakelite backing washer and steel stop washer. Then install the snap ring.


http://images40.fotki.com/v1338/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3740-vi.jpg
Picture 3740 Shows the Packing Assembly in the bore.


http://images38.fotki.com/v1278/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3741-vi.jpg
Picture 3741 Shows the steel ring at the end of the plunger that “tips” the compensating valve.
This allows brake fluid to enter the chamber. Refer to frame 3736 and ….
Set plunger about 1 inch inward before installing the compensator valve.
In order of assembly: insert compensating valve stem into compensating valve fitting . Then place cone shaped compensating valve spring over valve stem and assemble retaining clip.
Lubricate fitting seal o-ring with alcohol and install to master cylinder.


http://images40.fotki.com/v1339/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3743-vi.jpg
Picture 3743 Shows the outer plunger seal and hydraulic seal place them in order shown
Note: The replacement outer plunger seal is made with a leather insert. Refer to frame 3742. Daub your finger in Neatsfoot oil and coat the inner seal before installation. This Neatsfoot oil can be purchased at any sporting goods store or an All American country hardware store you know …the old fashion store that’s got it all… The way the seal is pictured is the way it goes on. The steel plunger has a chamfer so as not to cut the seal. Wipe a small amount of Neatsfoot oil on the end of plunger and carefully place the seal over the end with a twist


http://images40.fotki.com/v1333/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3744-vi.jpg
Picture 3744 Insert to the master cylinder.
http://images41.fotki.com/v1347/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3745-vi.jpg
Picture 3745 place cork gasket to the master cylinder as shown.

http://images43.fotki.com/v1324/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3746-vi.jpg
http://images42.fotki.com/v1317/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3747-vi.jpg
http://images43.fotki.com/v1367/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3748-vi.jpg

Picture 3746, 3747, 3748 Install power booster cylinder to the master cylinder. Using 3 bolts as shown.
DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN BOLTS. Snug….Use a ¼ drive socket set

A word of caution:
You must change the brake fluid at least every 2 years to rid the system of moisture. Refresh the fluid and bleed the system.

[Chuck Lutz]

Well done. Thank you. I just bought and received one of these (rebuilt, we'll see). Great photos.

[Barry Wolk]

I disagree with your contention that the master cylinder can't be bored. As you stated, the MC used displacement rather than compression to move fluid to the wheel cylinders.

Since, unlike a plunger-type MC, the walls of the cylinder are not touched by seals, there is no need to hone, or sleeve them, ever.

Unless I'm missing something that the '59 has that the '56 doesn't, I see no need for your caution. Are you talking about the small area where the plunger seal sits? Otherwise, I can't figure out what you're talking about.

Please note that the picture below is for the poppet style booster. It depicts the MC in the activated mode. You can see the piston has no seal on the end of it, it's mass just displaces fluid when inserted into the trapped volume of fluid.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/1%20Mark%20II%20docs/Scan1-2.jpg

[vancec]

Hey, I know this is out of left field but my repair shop lost the cover to the master cylinder. Know anybody who's got an extra one?
Vance

[Barry Wolk]

The screw in breather cap?

[vancec]

The screw in breather cap?

I'll send you an email. Maybe I misidentified it.

[Barry Wolk]

I believe I do have what you need. I just bought a Treadle-vac to rebuild, but I don't need the master cylinder. I'll loan you the cover, but you'll have to replace it. How soon do you need it?

[vancec]

I believe I do have what you need. I just bought a Treadle-vac to rebuild, but I don't need the master cylinder. I'll loan you the cover, but you'll have to replace it. How soon do you need it?

OMG Barry,
I can't believe you have it!! It is supposedly the last thing left to have my car running. I need it yesterday. Let me show the photo to the mechanic and make sure that's what he's talking about.

I can search the world to find one. I have some emails out. How soon do you need it back?

[Barry Wolk]

I've actually never unpacked the box. I'll take pictures of it tomorrow. I can ship it out Monday, overnight, if you need it.

Just find me one when you can. They're out there. The initiator of this post has several lying around.

[vancec]

I've actually never unpacked the box. I'll take pictures of it tomorrow. I can ship it out Monday, overnight, if you need it.

Just find me one when you can. They're out there. The initiator of this post has several lying around.

This will work out great for me. I will be here till Tuesday night then I am out of town. I'll send you a check for shipping then give yours back later.

Thanks for bailing me out. Again.

[Barry Wolk]

This what you're looking for?

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/1%20Mark%20II%20docs/IMG_2542.jpg

[Barry Wolk]

Holy crap, Mad! You warned me about what I might find inside the carb you sent. Check out this mess.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/1%20Mark%20II%20docs/IMG_2547.jpg

Vance, I found that the brake fluid return was plugged and no amount of pressure or solvent would budge it. Turns out they soldered a diverter cap over the outlet, but it completely covered the opening. I drilled out the cap and it flows fine, now.

I sand-blasted the cap and painted the outside with Rustoleum. I didn't paint the inside as brake fluid would have detached it. You'll need to make a new gasket.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/1%20Mark%20II%20docs/IMG_2548.jpg

[vancec]

That's it. Man, that thing was fugly when you got it.

[Barry Wolk]

I'll send it Next Day tomorrow. Any preference on shipper?

[vancec]

I'll send it Next Day tomorrow. Any preference on shipper?

Whatever is most convenient for you. Thanks Barry

[Mad Scientist]

Wow! that is what some of the cylinders in my original engine looked like. But at least the cover and cap were good and are being put to good use.:)

[Don Henschel]

Very well done! Where did you locate a repair kit for this? Kanter? and if so what info do I need to give other than sleave or poppet type. Also how reliable is the main piston leather seal (should one replace this when apart or if it aint broke don't fix). Mine presently works very well but if the car sits for a very long time, the brake pedal becomes slightly stuck. When you push it, it breaks free and everything works fine after that. Once a month I press the brake pedal to prevent this. Since this component is mentioned to be the most problematic parts on our cars I am considering getting a rebuild kit to have on hand for this reason. I filled the reservoir to the lid and the brake fluid seeped past the cork lid gasket and caused the paint to peel off. When I remove the unit from the fire wall for repainting I might just as well totally rebuild it as well. I recently spied one in an almost totally stipped 57 Linc. in a local wrecking yard. The engine compartment was empty except for a pair of exhaust manifolds still attached to the exhaust pipes still wiith a good heat riser and the treadlevac still on the fire wall. The brake pedal is rock solid so I hope it is salvagable.

[Barry Wolk]

I just read that the Lincoln and Continental Treadle-vacs are different in the way they attach to the brake pedal and that the back plate is different.

[Don Henschel]

Your right! I lifted the hood on my money pit and the Treadlevac is mounted flush on a raised portion of the firewall. The Link I remember had offset brackets which held the Treadlevac apart and away from the firewall. I remember this looking at it wondering what was involved to remove it. It might not be to far off for interchange as the brackets mounted to the back 4 bolts like the firewall does in the Mark. If the price is right and what vancec went through (they sound damn hard to get) might be a good thing to hoard for spare parts.

[Continental59]

Barry ....
What I said was “The casting can be bored out and sleeved with a stainless steel insert.
DO NOT HONE THE BORE ….It cannot be resurfaced !”
Allow me to elaborate:
The rubber packing fits into the counter bore as shown in the previous illustration. The leading edge of the packing seal will go in first followed by the packing expansion bushing and then the washers, retaining ring and finally the leather seal. The counter bore must be free of scratches pitting gouges etc. on order for the rubber packing to do its job. Note that the leading edge seals against the bottom of the counter bore. You exert at least 150 -200 PSI when you step on the brake pedal. That is why the bore needs to be perfect. It really only seals in the first 1/16 of an inch of the bore …right down in the corner. Additionally, the inner portion of the packing seal rubs against the plunger (shaft) it too must be free of nicks, scratches etc.
If you hone the bore you will scratch the surface of the casting disturbing the green anodizing on the casting and allow brake fluid to seep past eventually allowing brake fluid to fill the booster and cause a soft pedal. The green anodizing seals the casting from corrosion forces of the brake fluid. So if you’re loosing fluid and there are no leaks ….. Look again! When you pull the unit for service it will be full of fluid. Not to mention the vacuum reserve tank will fill up as well. Believe me it holds a lot of fluid. You will be filling all the time….With no visible leaks. This is the number one reason for failure. I’m no expert but my boosters have lasted over 10 years.
The casting condition is critical. It can be sleeved and re-anodized, but with caution.

[Barry Wolk]

Thanks for the clarification, but I believe you've missed the return tube that's designed to return fluid to the reservoir that gets past the initial seal. While I agree that the fluid could get past the initial seal under pressure, it would be returned to the reservoir, rather than leak out the shaft.

Just my $.02

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/1%20Mark%20II%20docs/Scan1-2.jpg

[Barry Wolk]

Whatever is most convenient for you. Thanks Barry

Went out this morning via FedEx overnight. It'll be left at your door tomorrow if you're not home. No sig required.

Tracking # is 8688 8935 4390

I can't believe that a 1 lb box cost $44.89 to ship to CA. :eek:

[Chuck Lutz]

Went out this morning via FedEx overnight. It'll be left at your door tomorrow if you're not home. No sig required.

Tracking # is 8688 8935 4390

I can't believe that a 1 lb box cost $44.89 to ship to CA. :eek:

It's those darn Rocky Mountians and the Sierra Nevada range. Remember the Donner party? :D

[Continental59]

Now that's interesting ....... My unit does not have one!! ??
I need to go through my buckets of cylinders to find that one!
Just one of many FoMoCo mysteries ..
I see what your talking about ...... it seems that that passage would return excess / bypass fluid

[Barry Wolk]

Your master cylinder housing is set up for one, but your lid is not. I'm just guessing, but the Continental unit may have differed from the Lincoln unit, specifically due to its fluid return system. It was probably a more expensive option.

Also, your mounting method is different. Our units have tabs that bend over the back cover, no bolts.

I hope you now understand why I feel that generic information can be confusing.

http://images43.fotki.com/v1325/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3767-vi.jpg

[Continental59]

Yes . ...I looked at The castings I have In stock That is not a Through-hole
in my illustration. The Vent hole was deleted according to my engineering specs. So ....The "early style" large diameter cylinder is used with the Through hole vented casting and lid. It dose not have a fluid return system as you suggested, its simply a vent. Rather strange placement I must admit. It has nothing to do with the counter bore.
As I mentioned these units are interchangeable having the same bolt pattern dimensions. Yes as I mentioned in my earlier e-mail to you the back cover has tabs that bend over the Cylinder housing. As opposed to the flange on the revised unit.....
The “pop unit” being replaced by the “sleeve type” unit as you call it. The later is a more simplistic design and more reliable.
I take it you have rebuilt a few of these units Barry?


"I hope you now understand why I feel that generic information can be confusing."

Barry Im not sure what you mean by that comment?






Your master cylinder housing is set up for one, but your lid is not. I'm just guessing, but the Continental unit may have differed from the Lincoln unit, specifically due to its fluid return system. It was probably a more expensive option.

Also, your mounting method is different. Our units have tabs that bend over the back cover, no bolts.

I hope you now understand why I feel that generic information can be confusing.

http://images43.fotki.com/v1325/photos/1/1091578/6753336/DSCN3767-vi.jpg

[Barry Wolk]

I thought it was pretty self-explanitory.

[Barry Wolk]

Sep 29, 2009 3:41 AM
Departed FedEx location
MEMPHIS, TN

You should have it by 3:00, Vance.

[vancec]

Sep 29, 2009 3:41 AM
Departed FedEx location
MEMPHIS, TN

You should have it by 3:00, Vance.

Got it Barry. Thanks again. A check is on its way.

When I get back Monday, the car is SUPPOSED to be at the paint shop!
Vance

[TomPiantanida]

Just bought a rebuilt Tredle-Vac. How difficult is to to replace the old one? Any "how-to" articles or videos? Thanks.

[Barry Wolk]

It's pretty simple, from what I remember. Crack open a bleeder screw at one of the front wheels and pump the cylinder dry. This will prevent a spill and eliminate drippage from the brake line. Then remove the lower panels, beneath the steering wheel. I believe the pushrod is attached to the pedal by a clevis arrangement. That needs to be detached. Detach the wires on the brake light switch on the master cylinder. Detach the hose block on the master cylinder. I would suggest getting new crush washers when you reinstall the brake line.

What I can't remember is whether the firewall has captured nuts or whether there are studs that pass through the firewall.

If you're transferring the brake light switch to the new MC you might want to remove it before you take the MC loose from the firewall. I believe it's an aluminum thread that can easily break off.

I do remember reading about gasketing around the holes in the firewall letting hot air into the car. We use a non-hardening putty in the electrical trade that we call dum-dum. I made some rolls and stuck them to the back of the unit. It filled the gaps and will allow me to remove the unit in the future, should the need arise.

[Mad Scientist]

As Barry stated replacing the booster is pretty simple. No special knowledge or cuss words are required.
The push rod is connected to the pedal with a 5/16 bolt and nut and there are captured nuts on the inside of the firewall. Although one of mine managed to escape.

One final point before mounting the new unit loosen the lock nut on the push rod so that the "I" bolt can be adjusted.
With it bolted in place adjust the "I" bolt so that with the pedal all the way up when you put the bolt in there is just a slight abount of free play in the pedal.

[lincoln mark]

I saw what I typed and was going to correct but an employee interupted me. When at fault I blame the help. For the record, I polish the hell out of mine, then spray them with clear coat. Looks great.

[vancec]

The whole issue may be moot. The shop where my car has been for a year and a half, just burned down and the business closed. Also gone is my payment, in full, for the restoration. Luckily (I hope) the car was moved to the paint shop two weeks ago so it still exists. Now I am hoping that this paint shop is reliable and I won't be stuck with the whole paint bill. But now knowing the way the restoration shop has managed the project, I am hoping for the best and expecting the worst. I may have a parts car to sell here pretty soon.

I haven't been on the forum for a few weeks, and only then because of the s**t-storm that blew up recently.

Keep your fingers crossed for me and, again, thanks to EVERYONE who has helped me so much in this process.

Vance

[Chuck Lutz]

Oh Man.. Vancec. You've had a pretty rough go of it. I wish I could think of some "things will get better" saying but I don't think you need to hear it.
So, if the car was moved to the paint shop would all the removed parts and gaskets (removed for paint) be with the car or were they lost?
I can't believe that this clown didn't have insurance. Good luck and please keep us posted.