Do you own a Lincoln?

[Barry Wolk]

I owned my '77 Town Car for about a year before I bought the Mark II. Was Lincoln your entry into the Continental brand?

[SLK]

My Mark II is my first Continental. I received it as a gift from my father who was downsizing and his 66 convertible went to my sister. When I was born, my father brought me home from the hospital in his 64 convertible, so I guess that technically was my first entry into the Continental :)

[depmike38]

My first one was a 1971 Mark III. Great runner but a bit tired. Had two 88 Mark VII's. One I bought new and a second I had up till a year ago. I tried to keep it but after I finally talked my friend out of the Mark II I had to make a bit of room.

[Mad Scientist]

Technically I have never owned a Lincoln but I grew up with them. Before getting the MKII my father only drove Lincolns. Traded in a 54 convertible for $2725.
Although in my very early days he did have a Cord but I was a bit too young to remember it. I was supposed to have been drought home from hospital in that car but due to the Cords typical electrical problems the transmission would not shift.

[continentalguy]

The Mark II was me and my dad's first classic car (believe it or not we were originally looking for a Cadillac) and ever since that we have purchased many Lincolns. Our first was a 1989 Lincoln Town Car then to what we own today a 1961 Lincoln Convertible, 1962 Lincoln Sedan, 1972 Lincoln Mark IV, and a 2001 Lincoln Continental. Then for my high school driver of which I still have is a 1985 El Camino of which I really love to drive ;)

[Keith W Colonna]

When I was 7 years old my Dad traded his Packard for a 59 2 door Lincoln Capri.
He didn't want elec. windows or anything my sister and I could play with and break. the Capri in 59 was the bottom end Lincoln and now is the most rare. The car was primarily my Mom's but we drove it from Norfolk, VA down to Pensacola, Fl to see her family several times.
My job was to clean the car and I always bragged about the car to my friends.
After 10 years it was nothing more to my folks than a a tired luxury car. But no one would give them more than $500 for it in in 1970 with fuel prices rising to the insane price of over 40 cents per gallon.
But "the Lincoln" was a part of my childhood memories and I insisted that it be my high school graduation present. I then promptly refused to move it from their heated garage.
I always longed for a less practical car than the 59 Lincoln (right!)...a two door with unmanageable back seats so the MKII was the obvious choice. I now have two MKII's ( and counting). A neighbor passed recently, so I bought his 55 Capri too and am bringing it back to life in his memory.

[Nick DeSpirito]

I grew up with Buicks, Oldsmobiles, and Cadillacs. I remember as a kid, my mom's car was a '53 Buick. Then Dad bought a magenta colored '57 Olds 98 but the car would shimmy on the highway and he had to slow down to make it stop. I'm sure it could have been repaired, but my dad opted to unload it for a teal colored '58 Buick Limited. The chrome on that car was hideous. LOL We had that until he bought a '67 Olds Delta Custom coupe. White with black vinyl roof, buckets and console, which eventually became my car, but not by my choice. I wanted a Riviera, but dad wouldn't hear of it. So I bought the '67 Olds (paid him off on time) and mom got a gold '70 Olds Delta Custom coupe. I was drafted into the army and upon returning home, sold the Olds to my younger brother and made a bee line to the Buick dealership and put an order in for a '73 Riviera. It came in about 6 weeks later. metallic red, half white vinyl roof (over the front part of the roof), white interior, 455 engine. Nice car. Now comes the turning point in my life with cars.

I used to detail cars on my day off of work, but not for the money, (I used to charge the owners $25.00 back then) for the experience of driving them. My cousin had a '74 Mark IV and asked me to detail it. Well, once I drove that car, I knew I had to own one. It rode like no other car that I had ever driven. It was like riding on a pillow, but very agile and responsive. So, after owning the Riv less than 18 months, what do I do? I offered it to my younger brother to whom I sold the '67. He agreed to buy it and I made a deal to buy a Mark IV for $9,100.00. (dad wound up driving the '67 again after giving me the proverbial speech that my money is worth a penny a pound and asking me "Who are you trying to impress?") He just didn't get it. I wasn't trying to impress anyone. I was a self admitted car junkie. The Mark was White with a full vinyl chocolate brown roof with the saddle and white luxury group interior. My first antique car was a '40 Cadillac 75 series limo which I owned from '74 to '76.

After that, it was always Lincolns for me. (lest the '85 300ZX I had) My next one was a '77 Cartier Mark V. All dove gray. It was around this time, while thumbing through listings in Hemmings that I stumbled upon an ad for a Mark II. I had never seen one before nor did I know that the car even existed. I became totally obsessed with the car, but being a newlywed and in the process of building a new house, I had to put the idea of owning one on the back burner for a few years, but I did join the LCOC. Fortunately, Bob Davis was president at the time and was a Mark II enthusiast. We corresponded a lot and he answered any questions I had. It was in the mid eighties that I joined the Mid-Atlantic region and even though at the time I had the 300 ZX, they welcomed me with open arms. In '88 I contracted to buy the Mark II which was under restoration at the time. In the years of waiting for the Mark II to be completed, I stumbled upon a '79 Cartier Mark V with 34,000 original miles which I promptly purchased and kept until the Mark II was done. I sold it to a fellow LCOC member and he has recently contacted me to inform me that he sold it to a collector in Switzerland.

Anyway, I presently own 5 Continentals.

1956 Mark II
1976 Mark IV Lipstick Edition
1986 Mark VII LSC
1989 Continental
2000 Continental (my dad bought this one new and since his passing 2 years ago, is my daily driver. Yes, I finally converted him to Continentals in 1997 and signed him up in LCOC :D)

[linmk2]

My Mark II was not my first Continental. Shortly after earning my college degree in 1974, I started to work in car dealerships. I chose a Ford Lincoln Mercury dealership as my start. I was born with gasoline in my veins and polishing rags in my pockets. I was always smitten by luxury cars. The Packards, the Cadillacs, the Imperials, and of course Lincolns. I saw my first Mark II when I was around 6. It was owned by a local banker named Jack Creig. Each time I would go to the bank with my dad, I would head over to Mark II for a look. My dad always lifted me up so I could see inside. As time went by, I began to fall under the spell of Lincolns, more so than the other cars of that class. Packard, of course died a death in fact after the 1956 model year and in name in 1958. I really don't count the 57 and 58 Packards as luxury cars. With Packard gone, the field was narrowed, so the Lincoln became my favorite car. Doing my High School and College years, Lincolns were out of my reach, but I did own 2 Mercury Cougar XR7's. At least Lincolns were sold in the same showroom. My first new Continental was a 1977 Mark V. The car was followed was a new 1978 Mark V Pucci Designer Series. In 1984 I came across a 1956 Mark II. I've owned that car ever since. The only other Continental I've owned was an 1988 (sorry). I bought that car used when our dealership stopped providing Demos for Management Staff. Will I own another Lincoln or Continental? I'm not sure. Time will only tell.

[Barry Wolk]

My father bought a Lincoln after getting stuck, literally, in a Jaguar XKE coupe at a dealership. He got his size 15 boot stuck behind the pedals. The door had to be removed to get him out of the car.

Slightly before that my father wanted me to go to his technical high school in Detroit. You had to be a Detroit resident or you had to pay huge tuition. My folks looked for homes in the Palmer Park area of Detroit, rife with old mansions from the halcyon days of the auto empire that was Detroit.

They found a 10,000 square foot home that backed up to a golf course. It had a 12 seat movie theater, maid's quarters, huge everything and was furnished in ugly old furniture, as the home was being sold furnished.

We toured the home, ending up at the 5-car garage with quarters above for the butler and chauffeur. As the agent pushed the 5 buttons for the garage doors I was greeted with a sight I had never seen before, the rear quarter view of a Continental Mark II, part of the "furnishings" that came with the house. I was only 4 when the Mark II came out. I had never seen one before now. I was astounded.

My folks wanted the house so they negotiated a better price and were about to close when my uncle asked the fatal question, "How much are the utility bills for this monster?" One look killed the deal so they bought a house 1/4 the size, for the same price, in the suburbs.

That first impression must have left its mark on me as, at 50, I went looking for a Lincoln convertible to recapture a bit of my youth. I wanted a fully restored slab-side and didn't see much on e-Bay. I scrolled down into the older cars and saw the same rear quarter view that I had seen 35 years earlier. I had a visceral reaction. My scalp tingled and a literal shock ran down my spine. Amazing how powerful memories are.

Had to have it. The rest of the story you know.

[Matthew]

I've restored cars ever since I watched my father tinker on old cars (This usually meant using a great deal of black tape and wires of various lengths...he was not a wealthy man, but loved old cars). I was always attracted to the '55-'56-'57 Thunderbirds, and when I saw my first Mark II, I thought it was a '56 Thunderbird on steroids. Little did I know then, that in actual fact, many of the design cues first developed for the Mark II were subsequently co-opted by Ford for use on the Thunderbirds of the time. It isn't hard to see they share the same genetics. Ever since, I thought it was one of the most attractive body designs I have ever seen. When you arrive at a car show with Mark II, all eyes are averted from the row of '56- '57 chevy's.

[vancec]

My family never had two nickels to rub together; I remember their proudest day when we drove our brand-new 1961 Ford Falcon wagon off the lot!

It wasn't until about 8 years ago I got my first Lincoln, a 65 convertible. Then a 61 convertible. Then a couple Zephyrs. I was drawn to the Mark II for many reasons.

The Mark II is such a remarkable car in so many ways that it is a wonder to me that the prices are so ridiculously low. For instance, why in the world an Impala would be worth more than a Mark II is beyond my comprehension. The Continental is superior in just about every way imaginable. There were roughly ten times the number of '58 Impalas built and they originally sold for about $2,000. Their high retail value is now over $100.000.

Savvy car collectors all acknowledge how special the Mark was. When will they recognize that its monetary value should much, much higher?

[Matthew]

Hi Vance
I don't want to 'hijack' this thread, but you raise a good point that should be discussed (perhaps a new thread?). I have often wondered the same thing regarding the perceived 'value' of these cars at resale. Perhaps I'm (we're) biased, but they seem consistently low, given the relative scarcity of the commodity, and it's superb styling. Maybe it's a lack of profile / visibility?:confused:

[Barry Wolk]

Not that at all. The problem is survival rate. Estimates run as high as 60%. Can't swing a cat at a car show without hitting one.

They are also very expensive to have redone, if you don't do it yourself. Some parts are made of Unobtanium, scaring lots of people away.

Time is on most of our sides. I've seen increases in prices for Mark IIs that are better than the stock market (well, not better than the Ford stock I bought at $1.86) but far less than the asinine prices paid for muscle cars.

[Matthew]

Unobtainium...that's hilarious.:D
I understand what you're saying Barry, but there has to be many THOUSANDS of '55,'56 and '57 Chey's out there (not to mention '64 -'65 Mustangs) that command ridiculous values at resale compared to Mark II's, and car for car, there's no comparison. These cookie cutters ocupy stall after stall at the car shows I attend. Certainly up here where I live, people identify my car as 'some kind of Lincoln', but beyond that have no idea what they're looking at (but they usually love it).

[Barry Wolk]

Then, the next best answer is stupidity.

[vancec]

Damn, while I was writing this Matthew responded and said it all, so this is going to be mostly redundant:

Hey Barry, I was just in the process of starting a new thread for this issue when you responded. I, too, think I may have hijacked your thread. In any case, I agree with you on parts being scarce and expensive.

But I don't think it's about there being too many survivors. I see a Mark II at a car show once in a while, sure, but I have to look past an ocean of Impalas, Bel Airs, muscle cars, etc. All these "every man's" cars that were pumped out by the millions. People can't get 'em fast enough at any price. Why?

In my mind it also goes back to the old question of what qualifies a car to be called a classic. The guy across the street from me has a nice 56 Bel Air. He paid just under 50K for it. It's his "dream car"; God bless him. But he'd have a pretty hard time convincing me that our two cars are equally entitled to the title of "classic".

The masses are asses but I think you're right about people waking up to the real value of these cars eventually.

[Barry Wolk]

Neither car is a classic, IMO. When I think of Classic I think of John Dillinger's car or anything of that era. Our cars definitely fall into the "modern" classification, for a myriad of reasons.

[SLK]

I personally enjoy having something that you don't see everyday. When we had a 57 Mark II show up at a recent show, I was thrilled to get the chance to compare them. I had heard about the car for years, but actually getting to see it was a real treat. It was especially nice during the awards to hear the organizer inform the crowd about the scarcity of the cars.

My father in law is restoring the Nomad that his father purchased new. We can't wait for it to be finished.

[vancec]

Neither car is a classic, IMO. When I think of Classic I think of John Dillinger's car or anything of that era. Our cars definitely fall into the "modern" classification, for a myriad of reasons.

Well, I know this is a question that goes back forever on the LCOC. No one seems to agree on a definition but I think if any post-war car could be classified as "classic", the Mark II would be it.

Even the Classic Car Club of America is nebulous on its definition, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_car
The CCCA says: "Usually the cars recognized as "CCCA Classics" were built in limited production numbers and were quite expensive when new. As a group, they represent the pinnacle of engineering, styling and design for their era." Clear as mud.

One thing is clear: nothing is clear. Probably everyone considers a Duesenberg classic but other than that, everybody gets to have their opinion.

[Barry Wolk]

That's why I said IMO.

Opinions are like belly buttons.

[Keith W Colonna]

I'm going to say this again....old cars are a hobby...not an investment. But unlike golf, you've got something to show for the money spent.
Who cares what the car is worth...how do you quantify enjoyment? If the prices are perceived as low...then great.....find and save another one.
If someone is tying to justify their time and money...they should get a second job!!
When the day comes...I'll be giving my stuff to an appreciative heir or desperately trying to find a qualified guardian to love and preserve my cars.
I am glad the MKII is not on the hot list for collectors. Let's keep it that way.
The MKII is not associated with the "fun rock 'n roll" Fonzie 50's, hence the low appeal to most people. It's an old man's car...with no friends...cause they can't limbo into the back seat. It's got no bling.
But we all know what we like about the car....it's special, we're special and that's why it's priceless to me.

[Mad Scientist]

....old cars are a hobby...not an investment.

Who cares what the car is worth...how do you quantify enjoyment?

But we all know what we like about the car....it's special, we're special and that's why it's priceless to me.

That about says it all. :):):)

[Matthew]

Well, I consider my cars BOTH a hobby AND an investment...but unfortunately, restoring a Mark II has the potential for being a really lousy investment based on it's relatively low resale values. By 'relative', I mean compared to other makes of the same era. I think anyone who owns one has to place the hobby aspect above the investment when it comes to a Mark II...It's just a bit of an ongoing curiosity to me.

[depmike38]

I guess I just gave up a long time ago keeping up with exactly what I put into a car I like. I just try to get what I think are decent prices on parts along the way and enjoy building and using the car. Building one of these, or any antique car, yourself just to sell it is usually a non-profit exercise.

[vancec]

The MKII is not associated with the "fun rock 'n roll" Fonzie 50's, hence the low appeal to most people. It's an old man's car...with no friends...cause they can't limbo into the back seat. It's got no bling.

Now that explanation makes the most sense to me.

It's ironic that the few who could afford a new Mark II preserved them for posterity, then posterity prefers the cheapest, mass-produced cars Detroit made.