Do you upgrade or keep everything original?

[Shelly Harris]

Assuming your car has everything original, and now needs a repair. For example, windshield wiper motor. An original or rebuilt vacuum motor is expensive if not difficult to find, and your cable pull dash switch must be in good shape and all vacuum lines must ok. The vacuum motor is not near as well working as a newer electric one, which you can use with an electrical switch under the dash. Undoubtedly, going electric functions better, probably more reliable and cheaper. But does replacing original less efficient or broken items with an upgrade such as an electric wiper motor hurt the value of the car or enhance it? What do you do?

[vancec]

Personally, I upgrade what doesn't show on the outside. I am keeping my generator and putting in an alternator. If I need to restore it to original, for selling for instance, I would just swap back.

[Mad Scientist]

To be upgraded or not to be that is the question.

If your car is only used as an all out show car then keeping everything stock makes sense. There is value in doing this. Also how else can you impress some brain dead car show judge that you do not know and don’t care to know?

On the other hand if you are not trying to impress the brain dead car show judge or anyone else for that matter then why not make the car the way you want it? You are the one that is going to be driving it so why not make it in a way that you want and will enjoy driving?

[Barry Wolk]

I disagree, to a point. The Mark II is as good a car as that built today, if used in the proper way. My brakes work fine. My wipers work fine. Actually, everything works just right in the context of the time the car was made.

The only modifications I've made to my car is new wheels for the radial tires and Pertronix ignition to eliminate tail pipe stink. Those modifications allow me to do 80 mph all day long, without missing a beat.

I don't think that any other modifications are necessary, or beneficial.

BTW, a rebuilt wiper motor is only $69, hardly a reason to swap to electric. Poorly working antenna and wiper motors is more an indicator of a poorly performing vacuum pump or a big vacuum leak, which should be fixed under any circumstances.

Most modifications simply mask other problems.

[Shelly Harris]

"Actually, everything works just right in the context of the time the car was made."

Yes, but that was 54 year old technology and even you conceed new tech is beneficial such as the ignition.
I'll be installing the Pertronix Ignitor too. That's an easy decision in that it's a swap for the points and condenser and is completely unseen in the distributor. (on my old VW beetles they worked wonders in making an engine purr, no stumbling, missing, etc. --- you can also put in a higher voltage coil, increase the gap on the plugs, use platinum plugs and not look at them for 50K+miles).

My Radio is a much harder decision. It's dead and probably needs all capacitors replaced, new tubes, whatever. Then what will I have, a dumb old AM only mono radio. Probably much better to gut it and have it updated to stereo, am-fm, mp3 input etc., but maintaining its appearance. And the antenna needs replacing too. Anyone have a good vacuum motored antenna? An excellent electric one off the shelf at Wal-Mart $80 and that'll be completely hidden.

I guess, if you want a car to drive, use and enjoy then you have to decide how far to go in updating. Barry draws the line in the sand with tires and the ignition. Others probably would go further. How far can you go and still have an "original car"?

[Barry Wolk]

There's nothing wrong with a vacuum antenna. There's just a small disc inside that needs to be replaced to make it function properly. Just another example of fixing a problem that was unnecessary to update. I doubt whether you'll get an electric antenna to look correct due to the steep side angle of the fender.

Simple solution for the radio, use an i-Pod with auxiliary speakers. Far better than any radio station you can tune into.

BTW, Pertonix sucks on 6-volt cars. My '55 Porsche Continental Cabrio would stop running when I used the headlights. If the power drops below 5.2 volts, the Pertronix unit stops working.

[Nick DeSpirito]

Okay, I'll admit that I'm a purist. Everthing on my Mark II (and all of the other 4 Lincolns that I own) is completly stock and in working order. Trust me, I am not a trophy hound, nor do I like anyone nit picking my car apart, but I am a stickler for everything having to be original as it came off the assembly line. I think of the car as a work of art. If I had an original Van Gogh, would I make any modifiacations to my liking? Not. It's just my thinking.

I would do the pertronix if it improves performace and cuts down maintainance though.

But I do admire guys like Mad Scientist for the amazing things he is doing to his Mark II. I can't wait to see the finished product.

[Mad Scientist]

"Actually, everything works just right in the context of the time the car was made."

So true. In its day it was the best of the best.

But as I stated in the disc brake thread while the original drum brakes on the MKII were not all that bad for a car of its vintage and they are actually able to rather quickly stop the car from 80 MPH. Which is something not all cars of that era could do. But do not try to do an all out panic stop.

What got me interested in brakes was another car that my father owned, a Chrysler 300F, this car came with a 375HP engine and special high speed tires and handling package. It was supposedly good for 149MPH right off the showroom floor, however I never tried to verify that claim. But one night I was on the expressway comfortably cruising along at 80-85 not paying any particular attention as to where I was when at the last moment I noticed “oops” there is my exit. Stomping hard on brakes cars slows down to around 45 and I’m pressing harder and harder on the peddle and less and less is happening. So I wound up going around the cloverleaf at 35, with the cars tires and suspension this was not a problem but it was not what I had planed. After a few miles of low speed driving the brake slowly came back to life.

This was a great wake up call as it showed me how nice it is to have brakes that will actually allow one to make an all out panic stop should the need arise.

So my goal is to make the car again be the best of the best. To that end I have been making a few improvements from an electric clock that should now keep accurate time to a slightly modified engine. :D

Styling wise I think Fords stylists out did themselves. This is truly a classic design it is elegant but not gaudy. Thus I have only made very minor changes for practical reasons.

However it is my opinion that unfortunately Ford’s engineers were not up to the task. Like many other engineers that I have work with it appears that they operated under the illusion that “OK we did our job we designed it” now it is up manufacturing to figure out how to build it and service how to service it. Consequently it is like working on a giant jig-saw puzzle, a simple task can turn into a multi-step procedure.:mad:

So along with updating old technology this leaves room for plenty of mechanical improvements.

There's nothing wrong with a vacuum antenna. There's just a small disc inside that needs to be replaced to make it function properly.

Replacing or cleaning the small disc, as in my case, is a simple procedure once you have removed the antenna from the car. Of course the official way the remove the screw that is holding the clamp that is holding the bottom of the antenna in place is to first remove the front fender.:eek:

[Barry Wolk]

You don't have to remove the fender, just loosen it. I've done it.

[Shelly Harris]

Good tip.... I'll try to clean that small disc and see what happens.. glad to hear I don't have to take off the fender!

[Barry Wolk]

The disc on mine was cracked. I fashioned a new one out of plastic and it worked great until I lubricated the antenna shaft. I think some WD-40 dripped onto the new disc and warped it.

Anyone know what the original was made of? Anyone got one?

[Nick DeSpirito]

When I restored my car back in the late eighties, I sent mine to Klaus Wojak in South Carolina. He only works on vacuum antennas. Mine was working fine for years after the resto, but I guess from sitting maybe the inside of the tube developed some corrosion? Anyway, when it was at Hibernia over the winter, they took it out of the car and bench tested it with a vacuum source and it worked. So they cleaned it up and installed it back in the car, but now it's going up and down slower that it should especially when it's extended far up. The closer it gets to the base, the faster it retracts or extends. Weird. I'm thinking maybe there's still some kind of corrosion in the tube.

Maybe Klaus will sell you a new disc? Worth a shot. If not, let him rebuild it.

[Barry Wolk]

You could simply have a vacuum leak. Do you have a vacuum gauge? I believe the system needs 20hg to work, hence the vacuum pump. It might simply need to be run up and down by hand with some new lube to free it up. It's just an air cylinder so you can't screw anything up my moving it manually. With the switch in the neutral position you should get some resistance in both directions.

[Nick DeSpirito]

That's just what I was thinking too, Barry. I will give that a shot. I don't think it's a vacuum leak, because like I said, it works good when it is nearer to the base, going up or down.

[Mad Scientist]

Check to see if the antenna might be slightly bent, that could cause extra drag at one end.


P.S. The Continental is not the only car that recommends removing the fender to replace the antenna, however most mechanics find ways to work around that.

[Shelly Harris]

Good antenna tips... I'll get to mine Sat, I hope. Mine can be pulled up and down, but you can't lower fully. Won't go further that about 7" sticking up. Of course, no motor action. How much loosening of fender?

[Barry Wolk]

This is from memory, but this is what I believe is the procedure.

Remove the kick panel from the passenger side. This can be tricky to get out without removing the glove box but it can be done.

This is where it gets foggy. I can't remember if there is direct access to the bolt or whether you have to remove the metal air diverter. If you need to remove that part, just back out the sheet metal screws.

Once that bolt is out you'll need to remove the stainless trim along the bottom of the car. Those bolts are easily accessible alongside the exhaust pipe. Once the trim is out of the way there is either one or two bolts holding the fender to the body at the bottom.

There are also two bolts in the back of the inner fender. They are a little difficult to work with as the exhaust is in the way. These have to come out. These bolts secure the fender to the firewall, I believe.

If memory serves me I also had to loosen the front of the fender, where it attaches to the radiator support.

With the door closed you should be able to pull the fender away from the car at the bottom allowing you access to the clamp screw that holds the antenna tube. Once that clamp is free and you've taken the threaded ferrule off of the top you should be able to slide the antenna out. The last step is disconnecting the vacuum lines. One is longer than the other so they can't be confused.

I think the tube is peened over the cover on the end. I ground out the old peens and made new ones when I put it back together.

In thinking about your statement about the antenna not going down all the way I think you'll find that none of them go down all the way. It's about the only design flaw I can think of. You know that there are two inner shafts to the antenna, don't you. It's about 6 feet long. It brings in AM radio from Russia when fully extended.:)

See how tall mine sits? I know that thats as far as they can go. I was thinking about making a longer tube but something derailed that thought. It might have been that a longer tube wouldn't fit.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/Irearuswiugcopy-1.jpg

I had all the capacitors replaced on my radio and it works OK. When I had that done I was all about authenticity. However, being part of the Concours crowd, none of the judges look at stuff like that. If I were doing it now I have modern guts put in while keeping the signal seeking feature. Somebody out there does that.

[Shelly Harris]

Barry: Wonderfull information. I just printed it out. Would never have known the antenna sits that tall. Your car looks stunning!

[Barry Wolk]

I have to admit that that picture is heavily Photoshopped. The car does look like that in person, but the photo is enhanced by tiling. They took a master picture of the car in general illumination to make the body look nice. Then they took task lighting and individually lit the tires and other target areas of the car. Those areas were cropped out (tiles) of the perfect lighting picture and laid individually on the master photo.

There is no way to artificially light a whole car and have it look good so they fake it a little for impact. Worked for me.

[Mad Scientist]

For a reference I just went out and measure my antenna.
With it all the way down and measuring from the top of the plastic bushing there is 5.5" inch sticking up.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

[Nick DeSpirito]

Correct. That's as far down as it goes. But when extended, they are very tall.
One other thing, the uppermost part of the mast extends manually.
Posted via Moblile Device

Shelly, why is my post automatically saying that I'm posting from a mobile device? I'm actually using my desk top.
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[Shelly Harris]

Shelly, why is my post automatically saying that I'm posting from a mobile device? I'm actually using my desk top.
Posted via Moblile Device

In testing stage, but available to users, is a "mobile" page style which can be selected off the main page by users of Blackberrys, Iphones, etc. It's a bare bones display of the forum. You have described a bug which I'll remedy later today.

Posted via Moblile Device

[Nick DeSpirito]

OK Shelly. thank you.

[CarMan]

I just keep all my org parts (coil springs, old broken radio, pts/condens ignition, etc) in the basement when upgrades are done. Those can always go with the car when it's sold. So I don't believe upgrading will hurt the value.

[Barry Wolk]

I completely disagree. Unless you're planning on putting the original parts back on the car before you sell it, it will be diminished in value.

No one is going to be happy about you handing them a box of original parts and saying, "Here, you figure it out."

I ascribe to to the "drill no holes" theory of classic car ownership. If you want to screw something up, do it to an old belly-button car like a first-gen Mustang, not a Mark II.

Now, if a car is headed for a crusher and it has no other hope of salvation, go for it. Otherwise, let it be.

[AXXel]

Here is my rule: if the basic car currently exists in very good to excellent condition un-restored, then keep it that way. It is that way only once. Mine is in such condition but it did have a first-class re-paint before I got it. Still, I have cheated a little with an electronic iginition but that is it so far. I like driving it - I don't like beer bellied judges falling all over themselves to tell me what is wrong with it...who does? It won an interesting award at the Greenwich Concours d'Eleganc show this year, however, from the high end watch mag CHRONOS...it won the "Timeless Elegance" award. I guess so. It will be on their front cover in the next issue. As for the Bendix T & C Radio...I will spend no more money on that piece of crap. The clock does not work, but I stuck a big sundial on the hood...

[Nick DeSpirito]

Sun Dial on the hood. Axxel, you're too funny :D