Earliest production dates

[depmike38]

Is there data that shows when the first car went out that is considered a production car and what it's serial number might be?

[Barry Wolk]

C5671001 is the first production car, made in July of 1955. It was a medium green car.

[Nick DeSpirito]

Barry,

I know that 975 was the first pre production unit and there was no 1000. Were all these 24 vehicles prior to 1001 test vehicles?

[Barry Wolk]

No, I believe there were about a dozen pre-production vehicles. They skipped a few numbers. A couple are registered with the LCOC.

[Nick DeSpirito]

I know that back in the 1979 LCOC directory, there were some listed. I'll have to dig it out and look. (Not that it means they are still in existence.
or owned by the same person after almost 40 years). Back then they even used to list vin numbers in the LCOC directory of Mark II's that were parted out also.

[Barry Wolk]

Any listing for the other H & E convertible #1120 in there?

[Nick DeSpirito]

I'll look.

[Nick DeSpirito]

I've got the '76-'77 directory in front of me. Your car is listed to a Fred Yurcic in CA. (1120 isn't here)

Early cars are here:

XYX9502F owned by Elmer J. Rohn
C566975 Ronnie Reeves of CA.
C566977 H.T. Price of CA.
C567982 F. A. Nunnelly of TX.
C567983 Roy Henderson of CT.
C567985 R. K. Overbey of TN.
C5681001 John Krystowski of OH.

Mine was not in this directory.

[Nick DeSpirito]

1978 Directory:

Yours is still owned by the same guy in CA.

C566999 shows up registered twice to 2 different people. C. P. Hinshaw in NJ and Ira Mines of NY

Still no 1120.

Mine shows up in this one owned by John Dunnan of MA. That's the guy who owned it before me. He had moved to NH and I have his NH license plates that were in the trunk of the car when I bought it.

[Nick DeSpirito]

1979 Directory:

Your car is still in CA. Mine's still in MA. No 1120 listed.

I can't find the 1980 , but here's from the 1981 Directory:

Yours is still in CA.
1127 was listed in the 1979 directory, but now listed here in '81 as parted out.

Mine is still in MA.

No sign of 1120.

[Barry Wolk]

Here's an interesting piece I found in the Continental files. Unfortunately, I don't think it's accurate as all Ford products start with XXX001.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/barry2952/1%20Mark%20II%20docs/Oct2701.jpg

[Nick DeSpirito]

It can't be correct since I know (and it's also in the old Directories) that Ron Reeves owned 975 for years.

[Barry Wolk]

His car may have been pre-production, but sold anyway. It happened several times.

[depmike38]

I guess what has me confused is that all 56 models seem to start C56 then a number string but some have a B or C after 56 and with the low production numbers of the car why the change to a letter in the 4th position and then go from B to C.

[Barry Wolk]

All Mark IIs start with C56. By the time the '57 model year came along the project had been cancelled.

[Nick DeSpirito]

Mike, The numbers and letters represent the production months.

C566=June 1955
C567=July 1955
C568=August 1955
C569=September 1955
C560=October 1955
Now's when they changed to letters
C56A= November 1955
B=December 1955
C=January 1956
and so on with the exception of the letter O, They omitted it so as not to confuse it with October of 1955. So they went from N to P.

[depmike38]

Gotcha, that runs with my 12/55 delivery date.

[Barry Wolk]

Yes.:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

[johnnybgoode]

So... How to recognize one of the 23 preproduction models? Do they carry a XYX number like the Dennis Carpenter/Rohn testmule, or do they have another set of numbers to set them apart from the regular C56xxxx production cars?

[Barry Wolk]

I believe they all had that prefix and all numbers were under 1,000.

[Barry Wolk]

I just spent the better part of an hour talking to Lowell. While he has a computer, he doesn't have an e-mail address, nor does he surf. He's a true anachronism, of a higher order.

Lowell laid it out for me and I took notes.

1. XYX9502F was a prototype, not a production car. That makes it special in its own right, but it is not #1 production car. It was not the only car with a rear wiper.

2. This one was news to me. The first two cars #1000 and #999 were produced next. I listed them that way because they were made in that order. No one knows why. Both cars were made with 1955 Lincoln drive trains, but production sheet metal. These cars were sold to end users.

3. A few days after #999 was made the first actual pre-production car using all production components was made. It was #975. Over the course of the next few days cars #976-986 were made in a production run of two a day.

4. While these cars were also sold to the public, they were more "practice" cars than "production" vehicles. #987-998 were never made, as they were ready for full production. They jumped from #986 to #1001 as production began. As is Ford corporate practice, the first actual production car's serial numbers start with #1001, with a larger number of zeros in-between for higher anticipated construction. The Mustang being the best example.

5. The revelation. Drum roll.................................Buddy Holiday and the guy that wrote the report in the '60s were both wrong.

There were 2989 serial numbers. Add 12 "practice" pre-production cars (#975-986) to the 2 hybrid Lincoln/Continentals built first and the end number is 3003

This also accounts for why my serial number 1126 has engine number 137, which matches my Production Order number 137. They used the early engines in the practice cars, creating the gap between the last three digits of the engine and the serial number on the early cars.

I also learned that Mark II seat belts were removable at the attachment point, unlike other Ford products. The buckles were nothing fancy. They were the same as used on all Ford products.

[depmike38]

Barry, What do factory Mark II seat belts look like? The previous owner referred to the style I have as "aircraft" belts. They're grey with a chrome slide-type buckle that would function sort of like a motorcycle tie-down strap.

[Chuck Lutz]

They jumped from #986 to #1001 as production began. As is Ford corporate practice, the first actual production car's serial numbers start with #1001, with a larger number of zeros in-between for higher anticipated construction.

Going to ask this once again....
C5681001 is in the LCOC registry located in Ohio as previously discussed. If 1002 (recently on Ebay) and 1003 were (7) July codes why would 1001 be (8) August?

[Barry Wolk]

It's a misprint. It's listed as #C5671001 in the production numbers in the Mark II Encyclopedia.

[Barry Wolk]

Barry, What do factory Mark II seat belts look like? The previous owner referred to the style I have as "aircraft" belts. They're grey with a chrome slide-type buckle that would function sort of like a motorcycle tie-down strap.

He said that Ford started using seat belts in '56 and they were the same across the product line. He said they were very plain. Find a '56 Ford with belts and we'll both know.

[Chuck Lutz]

I thought that was a possiblity.
So "Production" of the cars started in July.
I was working backward and my car, 2287, fell right in the middle of the 56 model which is OK with me. I like to think they did some improvements on the fly with the first 1285 before getting to mine. LOL
Would love to get my hands on the Encylopedia.
Thanks Barry.

[Doc]

I guess we all just saw the rarity of our cars increase, as I think most of us were still operating on the 3014 total production number. Barry, thanks for tracking this information down and providing such detail. This information alone is worth the price of admission to the Forum...

With regard to the seat belt question: I believe the rear seat belts in our car were installed when it was delivered. Unfortunately, I don't have conclusive evidence that they came from the factory, but ours was an "introductory" model that went on display prior to the official sales date and had already been purchased by my parents--so I'm inclined to doubt the dealer did any work to add accessories prior to its delivery. Even if they had, clearly they would have come out of their stock, so they'd be the correct era FoMoCo belts. They are just as depMike described--light grey with a large chrome, clam-style latch on one belt. The other belt had just a chrome tip and slid completely through the latched belt--there was no length adjustment, you just played the belt through the latch until it was snug on the waist. The spring latch held it in place with a cross-hatched surface. I'll post a picture when I get a chance.

I've looked in vain for a copy of the Mark II Encyclopedia. What's the format? Would it make sense to photocopy one if we could find a willing donor?

[Barry Wolk]

No notation in the PO for belts on your car. No listing in the DSO list. Seat belts were DSO items. I think I counted only 29 cars made with factory belts. The vast majority were FOMOCO exec cars. Most of the seat belt cars had padded dashes and visors.

Does anyone know Tom O'Tool in Arizona? He's a Mark II seat belt maven.

[Barry Wolk]

Here you go fellas. A photo of Ford seat belts in use.

http://www.lovefords.org/56ford/images/1956_ford_sunliner_900.jpg

[depmike38]

That's the one! Guess it's better than nothing at all.

[Doc]

Following your reply, Barry, I spent an hour going through all the service records for our car and there is no receipt for when the belts were originally installed (I did find one for when they replaced the front belts). So I'm inclined now to believe the belts were installed by the dealer before the car was delivered--maybe my folks asked for them? But, there isn't any mention of them on the sales receipt for the car (nor any charge for any accessories). So I'm stumped. But, they do look about like the ones in the illustration you provided...I still believe ours date to 1955.

By the way, I'm about an hour from Newport Beach--you want me to go buy the Town Car for you?

[Barry Wolk]

I've bought crazier things from pictures. The Porsche came from Hawaii on a winning e-bay bid. I contacted the head of the 356 Club in Hawaii to ask if he knew the car and he stated that it was being fairly represented. I went to look at the Mark II after bidding on it on e-bay. The guy backed it out of the garage and traffic stopped. It was a done deal.

It looks decent, from the pictures. I could show it as a survivor.

[TomPiantanida]

I have a fairly early Mk II. VIN C5681016. The car is in CA.

[Chuck Lutz]

I have a fairly early Mk II. VIN C5681016. The car is in CA.

Tom, Yes I know, very early. If 1001 was the first production number then you were very close behind.

Do you know any of the history of your car? I actually exchanged email with you about the car from your add. I told you that I had my hands full with mine for now but might talk to you later about yours.

[TomPiantanida]

Yes, Chuck, I remember the email exchange. How is your MkII coming along?

[Jim Rohn]

I just spent the better part of an hour talking to Lowell. While he has a computer, he doesn't have an e-mail address, nor does he surf. He's a true anachronism, of a higher order.

Lowell laid it out for me and I took notes.

1. XYX9502F was a prototype, not a production car. That makes it special in its own right, but it is not #1 production car. It was not the only car with a rear wiper.

...

I also learned that Mark II seat belts were removable at the attachment point, unlike other Ford products. The buckles were nothing fancy. They were the same as used on all Ford products.

XYX9502F did not have a rear wiper, the Crusoe car my dad bought did ... do not know what the number of that car is

the seat belts (I have INTIMATE knowledge of those nasty things) were a polished aluminum casting and the tip of the belt that went through the JAWS (yes, as a little kid I had the misfortune of having one snap shut on my finger/hand) with the teeth was finished with a chrome plate piece of sheet metal. Belt end = chrome Buckle = polished (not chrome plated).

Our NEW 56 Ford wagon had those "things" in them and my dad installed them in the back as well.

[Richard]

Can anyone tell me about this VIN - C56R3838?

It is Serial No. 3838 and listed in e-Bay.

I thought I read in one of Barry's threads that only approximately 3,019 Mk II's were made for 56/57.

Thanks,
Richard

[Doc]

Barry's research came up with 3003; including 12 pre-production cars and 2 hybrids.

They started numbering the actual production vehicles at 1001--so subtract 1000 from the one on eBay and it would be a relatively late model.

[Barry Wolk]

I looked that car up. It was a DSO. Must have been stunning. It had all white seating, dash and door panels with black plastic trim and steering wheel. The exterior was black.

It also had the rare Positive Lock Differential (PLD)

[5bird7]

I can see this forum is going to be a new learning experience for me. A wealth of info in just this thread alone.

[peterr]

At what numbers did the 56 model end and the 57 start??

[Jim Rohn]

Can anyone tell me about this VIN - C56R3838?

It is Serial No. 3838 and listed in e-Bay.

I thought I read in one of Barry's threads that only approximately 3,019 Mk II's were made for 56/57.

Thanks,
Richard

here is the listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lincoln-Continental-MARK-II-LINCOLN-MARK-II-CONTINENTAL-GREAT-VALUE_W0QQitemZ170413578991QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_C ars_Trucks?hash=item27ad70daef#ht_500wt_1182

[Barry Wolk]

I don't care for the interior. Looks like vinyl.

I think it looks like a good bargain, though.

[Roger Zimmermann]

The driver side wiper arm is not correct...

[Pat Marshall]

I just spent the better part of an hour talking to Lowell. While he has a computer, he doesn't have an e-mail address, nor does he surf. He's a true anachronism, of a higher order.

Lowell laid it out for me and I took notes.

1. XYX9502F was a prototype, not a production car. That makes it special in its own right, but it is not #1 production car. It was not the only car with a rear wiper.

2. This one was news to me. The first two cars #1000 and #999 were produced next. I listed them that way because they were made in that order. No one knows why. Both cars were made with 1955 Lincoln drive trains, but production sheet metal. These cars were sold to end users.

3. A few days after #999 was made the first actual pre-production car using all production components was made. It was #975. Over the course of the next few days cars #976-986 were made in a production run of two a day.

4. While these cars were also sold to the public, they were more "practice" cars than "production" vehicles. #987-998 were never made, as they were ready for full production. They jumped from #986 to #1001 as production began. As is Ford corporate practice, the first actual production car's serial numbers start with #1001, with a larger number of zeros in-between for higher anticipated construction. The Mustang being the best example.

5. The revelation. Drum roll.................................Buddy Holiday and the guy that wrote the report in the '60s were both wrong.

There were 2989 serial numbers. Add 12 "practice" pre-production cars (#975-986) to the 2 hybrid Lincoln/Continentals built first and the end number is 3003

This also accounts for why my serial number 1126 has engine number 137, which matches my Production Order number 137. They used the early engines in the practice cars, creating the gap between the last three digits of the engine and the serial number on the early cars.

I also learned that Mark II seat belts were removable at the attachment point, unlike other Ford products. The buckles were nothing fancy. They were the same as used on all Ford products.

After exhaustive investigation Lowell has determined that #986 was never produced. There is absolutely no evidence that this unit ever existed. Circumstantially it is has been documented that #983 has engine number 10 and #1003 has engine number 15. Which would mean the following car/engine matches:
#984 - 11
#985 - 12
#1001 - 13
#1002 - 14

That would mean that the actual Mark II count was:

Prototype Cars - 3 (9500 & 9501 - Hand fabricated Sheet Metal Parts & 9502-The first car where actual production stamping dies were used to fabricate
the sheet metal parts)

Cobbled Cars - 2 (999 & 1000 - Cars made with 1955 Lincoln engines and transmissions)

Actual Mark II Production - 3,000

Pre-Production Cars- 11 (975-985)

Regular Production Cars - 2,989 (1001-2989)

[Barry Wolk]

Good job! I was only off by 3.:o

[Hal W May]

Hell of a job-Pat. Excellent work!!

[Doc]

Good job! I was only off by 3.:o

If you include the three prototypes you were exactly right...;)

Pat - Thanks to you and Lowell for providing an even more definitive answer to the most common question I'm asked about our cars (aside, of course, from the "did they really cost $10,000?").

[Shawn Newcomb]

Incidentally, my car is registered annually in NH based upon an original list price of $8800. So it still costs more to register than many cars from the 60's to the '90s.

[licorice]

Anybody that has Ford seat belts look wnde latche and see if they were made in Northport N.Y. Had 1963 sunliner with 406 and factory belts madi in N.Y.
Tony

[Pat Marshall]

Anthony, do you still own 1202?